Ep #4 | Marketing that Works: How to Get Your Offer in Front of the Right People

"Marketing is the communication bridge between your business and your potential customers."

In this fourth episode of the Roadmap to Business Success series, hosts Kate and Sam explore the next layer in the Revenue Generation quadrant of the Thriving Business Wheel: Marketing Strategy. 

Now that you've nailed your business identity and crafted your irresistible offer, it's time to take it to market. But marketing is one of the most misunderstood, and misused, areas of business. In this episode, Kate and Sam cut through the noise and give you a practical, grounded framework for marketing your business without burning out or burning through your budget.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Why foundations come first: If you haven't nailed your business identity and your irresistible offer, your marketing will struggle, no matter how much you spend. Kate shares the story of a client who spent $60,000 on a failed marketing campaign without a single sale, and exactly what went wrong.
• The three channels of marketing: Traditional (TV, print, letterbox drops), relational (networking, referrals, strategic partnerships), and digital (social media, SEO, email), and why you should never rely on just one.
• The truth about social media: Why organic social media posting builds visibility and brand awareness but rarely converts to sales on its own, and what to do instead.
• How to choose the right platform for your business: LinkedIn for B2B and professional services, Instagram for visual brands, Facebook for community-based businesses, and TikTok for reaching younger audiences. Sam shares a practical tip: start with the platforms you already use and understand.
• Inbound vs outbound marketing: The difference between pushing your message out (social media, ads) and drawing customers in (SEO, Google Business Profile, AI search), and why both matter.
• Getting found by AI: Why SEO is still the foundation of AI search, and how Sam's brand-new business was recommended by AI simply by being specific and optimising the basics.
• The power of email marketing: Why the money is still in the list, why you own your email list in a way you'll never own your social media following, and how to build a list that actually converts.
• Lead magnets and list building: How a free quiz, ebook or guide can bring in new subscribers consistently, even years after you create it.
• Email open rates and list hygiene: What good open rates look like, when to clean your list, and why you should never be offended by an unsubscribe.
• Sam's closing framework: Why marketing must be a multi-pronged approach. Choose one channel from each of the three categories and build from there.

Kate and Sam also discuss the rapidly changing landscape of AI search, why "AI junk" is flooding social media and how to stand out, and why just having the tools (AI, Canva) doesn't mean you know how to use them effectively.

Join the Workshop: Kate and Sam are hosting their Revenue Breakthrough Workshop on Wednesday 15 April — a live Zoom session where you c

Connect with Your Hosts:

Kate De Jong, PhD | Inspired Business 🌐 Website: https://katedejong.com/ 📱 Instagram: @katedejong.inspiredbusiness ✉️ Email: kate@katedejong.com

Sam Morris | The O8 🌐 Website: https://www.theo8.com/ 📱 Instagram: @the_o8crew ✉️ Email: sam@theo8.com

Thriving Business Podcast 🌐Website:   https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Scale your business without the burnout. This is the Thriving Business Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome back to the Thriving Business Podcast. I'm here again today with my co-host Sam Morris in Melbourne. Hello, Sam. Hi, Kate. Good to be back with you.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Oh, I I'm feeling good about the topic this week, Kate. Yeah. It's going to be a lively conversation because I don't know. How are we going to fit it all into one podcast episode? That's what I want to know.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Yeah. As we said in the um in the very first um episode that we did on this new series, this new 18 series, um, sorry, 18 episode series, we talked about how this particular topic today, which is marketing, is a very big bull to grab by the horns, I think were your words.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

That's exactly what we said, yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Yeah, so just to recap everyone, we yeah, we started out this series by introducing the thriving business wheel, which is the four quadrants, which um are based on um revenue generation, which is about earning, and then it's about keeping the money you make, which is about profitability, and then it's uh um quadrant three um is capacity, so that's growing smart, and then we've got um the final quadrant is leadership leading with impact. So they're the four quadrants we're walking through. We've been through episode um um um one was the overview, episode two was all about business identity, which is the foundation of your revenue generation, and then we went into last week we dived into um an irresistible offer.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yes, yes, we did.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

And now that you have an irresistible offer, you are ready to go to market.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yes, and if you thought getting your offer nailed was challenging, marketing is the next challenge that you've got to overcome. And it is a very big ch challenge. And I I don't I don't want to scare people with regard to marketing, but at the same time, if you haven't done the work to really nail your identity and nail your offer, your marketing struggle. Yeah, it's not gonna go well.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Yeah, so if you're just tuning in today and you haven't listened to episodes one, two, and three, we highly recommend you go back and definitely listen to business identity, which is episode two, and then um have a listen to crafting an irresistible offer if you haven't heard that one, because yeah, they do um form the foundation of good marketing. And yeah, a lot of people um fall into the trap of going straight to market or engaging with a marketing agency to put something out into the world where they haven't nailed the foundational pieces. So it is, as you said, Sam, very high chance of flopping if you don't do the groundwork first. Um yeah, and and I I mentioned that I had a client come to me in the last month with um having spent$60,000 on a failed marketing campaign and didn't return a single sale. And when I looked at her sales or marketing assets, I just was bewildered that an agency even took her money to, you know, um, yeah, to actually go out and promote it. Well, they helped her create these sales pages, and and there were some glaring gaps that I could see. Um the irresistible offer was not there, covering all the things that we talked about um in the previous episode, which is about that transformation, what you know, what's the result people are gonna get when they work with you? Where's the social proof and the credibility that was really missing in this case? And people just don't want to open their wallets if they don't trust that you're that you're gonna give them a result and that um you know they need that full confidence that you're gonna deliver what you say you will, and there needs to be a lot of social proof that you can do that. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yes, and I think too, Kate, you know, I this it's such good timing to be talking about this because uh as you know, uh I'm I'm now launching a new a new offer out into the marketplace, and it kind of feels like I'm starting with at ground zero because even though I have an existing audience on social platforms and existing email list, the transition that I've made in business means that I've got a new offer, which I need to actually market to a different audience than the one that I've already got in my back pocket. So I've had to do a bit of deep diving, and and as you know, I I talk to AI, and here's the here's the mistake, and I know we've got AI coming up, but the thing is that if you you are DIYing your marketing and you're having a chat with AI and asking about, you know, what do I put out there, write some captions for me, all of that sort of thing. The first thing I want to say is, and we've already said this, is that in marketing, if you're going to do tick boxes that list all of the features of your product or service, you're going to get a big fat marketing fail. And I I consider myself not too bad with the prompting and and communicating with AI. But honestly, first run through, despite how well trained my AI is, it sat out pretty pretty generic, pretty uh feature focused marketing to which I put push it back. And the actual deep dive that I did was really, really satisfying because I ended up saying, and I and I swear all the time with AI, because I I said this is shit. They keep giving me shit. I said what what they're really feeling is this, and I could speak on it because I've been there. And I said, what they're feeling is this, and so the AI then picked up the story that I told about what was going on, how it made me feel, and how good it felt to have finally figured it all out. Yeah, and then turned that story into the marketing, and the result was vastly different to where we started. Yes. So I think first and foremost, I I would love people to figure out what their story is behind what they're bringing to market.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a really good point. Um all models, you know, which AI is just a, you know, it um they rubbish in equals rubbish out, right? With any model or any um machine learning. So you've got to, yeah, and pushing back, the ability to push back comes through experience and and knowledge in the field, which you and I have accumulated over the years of running our own businesses and helping other people do the same. And um yeah, I'm the same as you. I rarely get a good output from AI the first time. Um, and then you have to just keep pushing back, pushing back, and then also rewriting stuff because it has to sound authentic and human and actually hitting the very specific pain points, as you said. It's got to be specific. And the AI tends to always default to generic statements or um, you know, messages which fall flat on people because uh someone called it um um what they call it space junk, uh, which is all the you know, the junk out in space, isn't it? Someone's calling it AI junk. There's so much junk out there in the digital world at the moment that um people are just sick of it. Like there's so much generic guff on social media, and you can tell it's all AI generated. And so how yeah, so I guess that's um that's part of this picture, but we've got so much else we need to talk about today, too. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's I also went to a great presentation um last week by a guy who does um branding, runs a branding agency, and obviously we covered that off in business identity, but he made a great statement. Um, because I was talking to him afterwards and said, What do you do with people that come to you and with done, you know, they've done the branding themselves and they're really happy with it. And he he says, Um, well, look, branding, he said, just it's like any other profession, except because people have the tools, they think they know how to do it. He said, But if I give you a scalpel and a um a drill and some forceps and say, go and fix that person's um broken shoulder, would you do it? You know, and he says, just because you have the tools doesn't mean you know how to use them. Yes. And I thought with branding, that's so true. And with marketing, it's the same. Just because you have the tools at your fingertips now with AI, with Canva, does not mean you have the expertise or the understanding to use them. And so, what we want to do today is try and give you some information that will help guide you a bit better when it comes to using these tools. Um, yeah, so Sam, if we start looking big picture at marketing in general, if we if we were to define what marketing is, how would you define it?

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I think of marketing as the communication bridge between your business and your your potential customers in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Yeah, communication. Yes. So you've got something really solid and really good because you've done the work to do your business identity, and then you've got this really irresistible offer, and now you're actually telling everyone about it. You're communicating to the world, this is what I have.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yes, yeah. And there are so many different areas of marketing. There are so many different ways to market. And I think that it's very, very short-sighted that people believe that social media is the one and only answer to all of their marketing woes.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Yes, if only that were true.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yeah. So maybe we should start talking about social media marketing briefly and then dive into the other ways that people seem to forget that they should also be marketing their business. Because you should never just use one mode of marketing.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

No, and just to give people an overview, there are three in my um understanding, three main areas of three channels of marketing. You've got traditional, which is all the stuff we grew up with: TV, print, billboards, letterbox drops, all the traditional stuff that that um before digital marketing and social media came along. Um, so that's still valid in some businesses, like for local um landscaping businesses or whatever, letterbox drops work great, you know, or it just yeah, it depends what your business is and whether you're local or um, you know, and sometimes um doing PR through newspapers and TV is a great way. I know a business that just launched and they got a lot of publicity, and that was great for getting their first you know customers through the door. So those things still exist and they're still important, and they do potentially need to be in the mix or not. So, and then the other the other um pillar of marketing, I would say the other channel I would say is relational marketing. So that's networking and getting out and building relationships and finding strategic partners. And for some businesses, like an interior designer, for example, if um, I know one lady that focuses all her effort on building strategic relationships with builders and real estate agents, and she gets all her work through that channel. So um, she doesn't barely need to market herself because these relationships are so strong that they just send her customers. She needs to have a really nice profile on Instagram and keep it updated and so on. And but um she doesn't have to be on the social media all day every day promoting her business. And um, yeah, so that's that can be really strong, and especially for new businesses, networking and relationships can often be the way you get off the ground. And then the third pillar is of course social media and digital marketing, which is the new part, which everyone does think, as you said, Sam, is the silver bullet to all their problems.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

And yes, because we we're all we've all seen on social media the people that have, you know, like grown a million followers in 30 days, that kind of thing. But I want to put this in perspective for people because while then I I'm not denying that there are people out there that have had that kind of success on social media, when you think about the teeny tiny percentage of accounts that can do that versus the amount of actual accounts there are. Uh if you think of it along the lines of I I want to be the world's greatest singer, there are millions of people who can sing, very few who are who are up there, you know, with diva status or icon status, you know, or or an actor or or any of those kinds of things. You've got to have perspective when it comes to this.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah, yeah, that's right. It's um yeah, like becoming a my boys often say they just want to become a YouTube influencer.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

And uh there's only one Mr. Beast.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Oh, but Mr. Beast, yeah, it's like, but Mr. Beast is one in a million, you know. Yeah, and how many YouTube channels are there? Yeah, that's right. So um it is yeah, very much the minority, um the minority of people who are actually making money through social media, and then usually they're making a lot of money through paid advertising using social media. So yeah, organic social media posting, in my opinion, is is great for visibility and brand awareness, but rarely does it convert to actual sales, in my experience, having been working in this space for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

And people just think if I post three times a day, it will build your visibility in your platform over time, but it's not, it's not going to be bringing customers through the door, you know, consistently, unless you have a very sales-focused, you know, approach with a with a social media marketing campaign. But having said that, Sam, you and I know it takes years to build a following on Instagram or Facebook or LinkedIn. It's not something that happens overnight. So if you are starting out, social media is definitely not where you're going to be getting your sales from initially, because it takes time to build up followers. And if you don't have many followers, then you could be putting all this time into producing great content, but no one's seeing it, right? So it's kind of the chickened egg. You've got to build up a good platform of followers. So there are people who are actually seeing the good content you put out. But building platforms and followers is is a is a slow process unless you have money to put into paid campaigns where you're promoting your pages and you're, you know, you're really focusing on building followers.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

So yes, and I think um last week we touched on the um self-liquidating offer. Was that last week we touched on that? And paid ads is definitely an integral part of that SLO cycle.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Yeah, where you put something out that's low price and you pay ads to get people to um to buy that thing, and then all of a sudden they have a buying relationship with you where they're happy to spend money with you because they got value from the the small thing that you offered. But as you were saying, that's usually a break-even exercise where or or a slight loss. Yeah. With the view to um actually getting people to then buy the larger products or services that you have.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Yes, yes, and and people that take on that kind of uh activity are very, very well aware of their customer life lifetime value. So they know that they can burn, you know,$30 on a lead or$5 on a lead or what however much they're paying to get leads for that ad. They know that they can burn that because the actual value that they're getting back from a customer is worth$200, for example.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah.

unknown 16:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

And I think businesses starting out don't have that kind of data.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

No, no, the data, nor the budgets to sort of, you know, in in those cases, they're putting aside$5,000 and upwards to just or um, you know, to just um to to test the market or or or to make sales with this low cost offer. Yeah. Yeah, with the idea to get it back. But yeah, new businesses don't have that outlay typically. But I suppose here we should also make the distinction when it comes to social media marketing and digital marketing. Yes. Um, there's also two pillars within that um category where you've got the social media marketing, which is what we call outbound marketing, is that you're pushing a message out to market, but then you've also got the whole world of inbound marketing, which is all the um search engine optimization and you know, and Google um searchability. Well, that's the same thing, isn't it? But Google business profiles and optimizing those so that people can find you and and actually attracting people organically that way. So that's inbound. So where you yeah, you're sort of bringing customers to you through active searches. So there's those two things that are, you know, and there's SEO agencies that um that's all they do is search engine optimization because it's a specific field, but that's a very important thing to focus time and energy on too. But that's another thing that takes years to actually get traction. So, you know, I've been at it, I've been at it for years, like five, six years, and I'm ranking, you know, locally on you know, the first one or two pages tip generally, but it's taken a long time to get there. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah, and I'm starting to see people now promoting their services of helping businesses uh get recommended by AI. Yes. Because there's been a big market drop in Google search with the prominence of AI. So um SEO is still absolutely important and should be part of your marketing strategy. That's right. But yes, AI is another thing to consider in there.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Yeah, and and AI can only pull what's on the internet. So it's and it does yeah, so it does rely on you being very intentional about um, you know, typically people are asking a question, you know, is business coaching worth the investment, for example. And so if you've got a blog that says, is business coaching worth investment, it'll you know, pull it up or AI will collate things that they think that it thinks is most relevant to the question you're asking.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

So yeah, it is shifting and changing, but a lot of ex SEO experts I've spoken to recently, you know, people are freaking out thinking, oh, AI is killing SEO, but no, actually, SEO is the foundation of AI. It's you've still got to optimize your presence online so that Google slash AI can find you. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, and I think, look, I I could be totally wrong here, but my my thoughts and my understanding of the difference between a Google search and AI is that AI is going to look at websites, but it's also looking at forums and it's all it's looking at multiple sources, yeah. And then it's kind of forming an opinion, if you will, based on all of those sources. Whereas with a Google search, it's not giving you an opinion, it's just giving you a ranking.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Yeah, that's true. So I think, yeah, AI looks at credibility across multiple platforms, doesn't it? So it's it's picking the people that have, yeah, um good interactions on Reddit, for example, or you know, are well good get good engagement on Instagram. So it's looking a lot more broadly than websites, which we've focused on previously. SEO was all about your website, wasn't it? But yes, AI is broader than that.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yes. I don't know if I shared this with you, but I I was thrilled a couple of weeks ago, I was doing some research with AI, and I deliberately went onto a different profile, a different uh Google profile, and did not log into the AI so that I would get results that weren't tainted by all previous conversations and you know my my AI training and everything. And I was so excited that it actually recommended my Yes, I think you did say that.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

That's amazing, considering the the business is so young.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yes, yeah, just yes, just because we had founded something that was um a little bit original. Yeah, but very specific as well. Gosh, AI, there we are on AI. How's that?

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Yeah, so maybe give um everyone some insights into what you did specifically. Was it that you were specifically answering questions about that problem?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Or well, yeah, I was doing research, uh, you know, I was doing research to get it to tell me um who who was going who was doing this kind of work.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

And what's the kind of work, Sam? You're talking about the 08, isn't it your new business?

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah, so uh so what we are doing is a blend of profit first, theory of constraints, and human design. Wow. Now I understand that that was very specific uh request about who who was working with these three things and in what combinations and things like that. Um but yes, it was very exciting to see the AI. So the only ones that are combining these three things is the OH.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

And I was like, oh picking you up. Which is good to know given that your website hasn't been live that long, right? Yes, that's true. So you've done well with basic meta tags.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

And if people don't know what that is, that's the basic, you know, keywords and information you put into descriptions, all of that, you know, and the copy, yeah, front end and back end. Yeah. And I'm no SEO expert, but I know that you know you've got to take care of the basics. You can do that yourself.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

So all of this might be sounding really overwhelming at the moment. To anyone listening, we're not really breaking it down yet, are we? No, we're not. We're sort of giving you the full array of things that are, you know, that you could engage with in marketing. I guess the question is, what should you focus your time and energy in with marketing? And for me, it always comes down to the question of where is your target audience? Like, where are the people that you're trying to reach? Where are they spending their time? Are they on Reddit or are they on X or are they on Facebook? Are they on LinkedIn? Are they not on social media at all? Are they in um professional forums? Are they, you know, where are they spending their time um? And how do you then reach them? So yeah, for business-to-business businesses, LinkedIn is typically, you know, a very good platform. If it's professional services, would definitely recommend you need to be present on LinkedIn. Uh, when it comes to more visual, visual things like building, design, architecture, anything, um, you know, clothing, accessories, um, art, anything visual, definitely Instagram would be the platform to spend your time.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

If you're more sort of community focused, and then Facebook is you know, is a good platform. And then you've got TikTok, which people tell me I should be on, but I it's I haven't been able to extend my bandwidth to that yet. But tell me your thoughts, Sam, on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Well, it was interesting. I I people are gonna get so sick of me talking about AI, but you know, I I'm alone in my office. And apart from you know, the Zoom sessions that I have with you and the Zoom sessions I have with Steph, for the rest of the time I'm engaged with AI.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

So And by the way, everyone, we will get to AI, and Sam will share all of her amazing learnings and knowledge with us because she's now running everything with AI, so we'll get to learn all that fun stuff. We will, yeah, just to let you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

I found it interesting that I I asked the same question of two different AIs about where my audience would be, which social media platform should I focus my energy? It gave me two different answers. Okay. And I was like, this is interesting because I'm getting two different results. And you know, the ordinary person would find this really, really confusing. But my pushback was, and and you and I both know that we've worked with many, many clients who, when we've been talking about their ideal client, they've said I'm the ideal client, it was me five years ago that's when I started the business. So for the people like that, my answer is that when when I was being told these are the platforms, my pushback was I don't hang out on those platforms. I'm on these platforms, and I'm not there for business, but I'm there and I see stuff all the time. And I click on things. So, yes, I agree with you about LinkedIn, but I'm not on LinkedIn. I detest Facebook because I get inundated on Messenger with people trying to sell to me. That's right, yeah. So I am an Instagram scroller and I am and I am a TikTok scroller. Oh yes, yes, I spend way too much time on TikTok. Interesting, yeah. So my pushback was if I'm trying to find people like me, would I not then choose to be on the social platforms that I am already on?

SPEAKER_02 26:05

And what did it say?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Well, it said yes because you should I get frustrated because I always agree with you. And sometimes I say, Stop agreeing with me. Tell me, tell me the truth, stop agreeing with everybody.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

But look, uh I do understand LinkedIn, and honestly, when I was working in corporate, I did use LinkedIn a lot more uh for for networking and things like that. But yeah, if you are trying to find an audience of more people just like you, then my suggestion is that if you are already spending quite a bit of time on any particular platform or you know, platform or two like me, you understand the platform, you understand the different content formats and and all of that. So my recommendation is to start with go with your gut and use the use the social media platforms you're familiar with.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Yeah, it's a very interesting question.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

It is, and I know that I know I'm gonna get torn down because they're gonna say, Oh, the you know, the demographics tell you to do be here, or and there is a there is an expert out there on every platform that will tell you this is the platform, this is the only one you need. Yeah, yeah, it's not for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

No, and so I suppose what we you and I do to counteract that is just to be present on um multiple channels. So even though um because you do post to LinkedIn, don't you, Sam?

SPEAKER_01 27:39

I yes, I I've shared with you my new social media helper, which is working out very, very well, and which is in enabling me with a single post to uh post it to multiple platforms without posting exactly the same thing to all three, because this is the other thing is that there are different post requirements on all three. You know, if you're posting to LinkedIn, it's a professional platform. You need to present yourself professionally. Facebook is the chilled out, you know, family, like you say, family photos, share your cappuccino you had on the way that like that's what people are doing. I walked my dog today. So that is a very different way in which you would speak to people on Facebook compared to how you would speak to somebody on LinkedIn. So in previous years, personally, I found that really, really overwhelming because I've sat there and I thought I have to write out a different story for every social media, either that or I just write the same thing. But then who am I writing for? Am I writing for the LinkedIn professional audience and then just speaking professionally on the other platforms? Am I speaking like Sam, the mum of five kids, that like I would on Facebook, and then putting that on Instagram, and then losing a bit of credibility there, really, because the tone's too casual.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

So you found this magic tool, which we'll share in the AI episode, but it helps you adjust one post for the different platforms, which is amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Yes, yes, and that enables me to be in more places because with not much extra effort. Yeah. No, and because we are so drowned out with all the things everywhere all of the time, the amount of touch points that you need to have with somebody before they'll start paying attention and consider you know, working with you or buying from you has dramatically increased over the last few years. That's correct. Yeah. And this is why you have to have more than just social media marketing in your marketing arsenal. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yeah. So for someone who's starting out, for example, um, um, I just saw an inquiry come through this week. I haven't had a um chat with her yet, but it's um someone who does environmental consulting, so branching out from corporate on their own. And yeah, I mean, obviously, with a client like that, I'll always go through the foundations, which is okay, the business identity, what's your core messaging? What are your branding assets? How are we going to position you in the market? How do we build credibility, trust, all that foundational stuff? And then what is the offer? What is the service that you're going to go out to market? What are the results you get for your client? How are you different to your competitors? What's the irresistible offer? All of that. So when they go to market, with someone like that, um their customers typically are not on social media, right? So they're, you know, they're um mining companies or their agricultural companies or their farming, you know, organizations, or so you're not going to find them on social media. So then it's a different, you know. I mean, yeah, they are, and in that um, in terms of sorry, you say linked okay, you're right to question that because it's not to say that they're not on social media, because they they are, and you and you do have to have a presence on there, you can't ignore that, right? But yeah, typically with a company like that, because she's so well connected in the professional corporate world, I always recommend that LinkedIn be their focus for their yes. Because all their net all their contacts currently are still in the corporate world.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yes, and and his here's the the caveat for for what I've already said is that you know, yeah, I'm I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, yeah, the big cats out there still have those social media accounts. But what you've got to consider also is the the standing of the person in which you need to communicate in order to be engaged. So take that client, for example, they're gonna want to or they're gonna have to be speaking to people that are quite high up in in those organizations. So picture this you're running um uh you know a mining company, for example, and you see this person on Facebook, first of all, think of the mindset of that person when they're on Facebook and the credibility you have being on Facebook pedaling your wares. There is a real mismatch there between those two things. So there are situations where I would definitely say that yeah, there's platforms that just are not suitable, even if you are on them, because the people who see you on those platforms are not going to think you're the one for me.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's a tricky one always to, you know, when people set up a Facebook business page, for example, and they don't mix a lot. I don't mix a lot of my business stuff with my personal page, but occasionally I do if it's a retreat or if it's a workshop coming up. Um, but yeah, that delineation, um, people do sort of expect a business page to promote what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

But if you're promoting your business on your personal page and people are late night scrolling on the couch and you know, and they're coming up against they see a post of yours about a, you know, why you should choose um geoenvironmental consulting. Yeah, it's not the right time or context, and they don't have a glass of wine in their hand. Yeah. Yeah. So but during the day in the office, if they're scrolling on LinkedIn for 15 minutes and they see it, then yeah, that's it's appropriate and relevant. So yeah, I think that's what you're saying, Sam, right? It's it's about matching whatever you're selling us um or um to to the environment. Yes. So if we would take another different kind of business, for example, whether say it's a a nutritionist or a health practitioner, and they um help people, you know, with brain fog and and bloating and indigestion and so on, what are your thoughts on Facebook for that as a marketing channel?

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Well, I think Facebook could be entirely appropriate for that kind of thing. And look, here here's the other thing. If you're thinking, it's not just about where you are, but it as I said before, it's about what you're posting on each of those channels. So because Facebook is a more familiar type personal platform, it would for me, it would be the recommendation to post things that tell people what kind of person you are, what values you have. You know, the things that you want to know that that you want to share, not not intimate details about your everyday life, but you know, talk about this this happened over here, and this is why what I do is really important to me. And it's not to go into a big business spin, but it's just to share your values and your thoughts and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

And why are you doing what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Yes, yes, because I think you need to, you know, you've got to share different parts of your business. You've got to share the business identity, you've got to share the products and services. You know, there are different types and those represent content buckets, I suppose you could call them. That's an old school term, isn't it? That's what we used to call them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Content pillars or content buckets.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

But the different those different types of things belong on different platforms.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Yeah. And one thing we haven't touched on, Sam, which is quite probably remiss of us at this late stage in this episode, is email marketing.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Well, yes, yes. And you know what, there is for very many years now that people have been saying the money is in the list. Yeah. And I would say that that is still holding true.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So the question, I suppose, for and and I see that definitely across the board with myself and with clients that the money is in the list because um you have a direct relationship then with someone who's, you know, engaged with your brand. And unlike social media, where Facebook owns your followers, Instagram owns your followers, LinkedIn owns your followers. So if something happens and AI disrupts them massively and they go crashing down, then you have no ownership over anything. And you might have invested years and money in building your 10,000 followers on Instagram. I've had um clients' Facebook accounts get hacked, yes, and their entire business is brought to the net brought to its knees because that that was their singular channel for generating revenue, and and their accounts have been hacked to the point where they can't access and they've had to rebuild, and it's really devastating. So that that does and can happen. So the email list is something that you build up, and we haven't touched on lead magnets either. And we've talked about um the low barrier to entry offers, or you call them SLO. Yeah. Um, they are a great way to build your email list. But if and you know, I've I've got two or three lead magnets, meaning a free ebook, a free guide that I have on my website, and I've had them for years, and they new subscribers trickle in all the time, even though I'm not doing much to promote them, but I should. Um, but yeah, they're a great way. So you offer something free of value to get someone onto your email list, and then you can communicate with them. So at the moment, the main way I'm promoting our podcasts and our retreat and our workshops is through my email list, and and people reach out, or you typically, like yesterday, I sent out um an email and then a couple of people book in for discovery calls, you know. So I always notice that direct relationship. And it's because for some reason people have engaged with your brand and they've given you their email address, so there's that trust, implicit trust there. And just a side note, you always do have to have permission to market to someone by email, and you must have an unsubscribe um you know, um button. Not all email marketing systems have that. So I use Go Hi Level, and you actually have to manually put an unsubscribe in your emails, so just be wary of that because there's nothing more annoying, is there, when you want to unsubscribe and you can't find the unsubscribe link.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Yes, and it's normally the tiny, tiny little very faint writing at the bottom of the email. I do like that. Um I do like that there are some email platforms that actually give you the unsubscribe button in the actual like in your inbox. You don't even have to open the email.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Right, you can just unsubscribe. That's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

And don't be offended if someone unsubscribes. I still get the little pang of oh. But um, you just want to keep your list clean with people that are actively engaged with your brand. And you know, I regularly have to go in there and and clean out, you know, 10, 20, 30 plus people that have unsubscribed when you send out an email, and that's fine. It's all about right timing. And people might have engaged with your brand because they thought you were the right person, but then that when they read your emails, they realize you're not what they're looking for, and that's fine. We're not for everybody, you know. So, yeah, you've got to just keep focused on there. Are people out there that need, you know, what I can offer and stay focused on on that. But email marketing, um, very, very powerful.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

And interestingly, I ran an um campaign for a client recently who's got a very engaged list. Um, my open rates are typically around 40-50%, which is really good because I do make clean it up. Yeah, and she got 70 for the first, which was great, and then sort of dropped dropped down the longer the campaign went on. And you do have to be mindful that people get fatigue, you know. That um, so there is there's a lot of nuances to think about in email marketing, but some brands go for volume, and they are happy with 5%. Oh, um, typically, yeah, 10% open rates, a lot of big companies will be happy with, and a 1% conversion rate is what they're happy with. So these companies have huge lists and they're going for you know really low conversion rates, which yeah, it just depends which field you're in, what your goal is. I think as more personalized brands that we are, and a lot of people are, it's it's more about having that personal relationship. And you should be looking at if if your open rates dropping below 25%, you probably, you know, it's either time to clean up your list or or do a cat, you know, find a way to find people that are more engaged with your brand, or regularly give people the option to opt out as well. Just say, hey, I've noticed you haven't been opening the emails. If you don't want to hear from me anymore, please let me know and I'll remove you. And um, that's a good way to do that as well. But it's a great direct channel where you can speak directly to your customers and they can hit reply and respond to you directly. So it's very, very powerful in that way. Yes. Um, any closing thoughts? Because we have to wrap up on this episode. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Closing thoughts are this, Kate. I I would encourage anybody who is embarking on marketing to choose one thing from each of the three different categories that you spoke about. Choose one digital marketing uh like channel in which to really focus your energy on. But also, you know, choose something from the other two as well, because I think where people fall over is uh only choosing one thing from all of the different types of marketing. Yeah. And marketing cannot be a one-pronged approach.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

That's right. Yes. Yeah. So be building relationships. I would absolutely say every business owner needs to be out there networking, building relationships. Um, you and I have done different things over the years, but I go every Tuesday morning to a big circle of 50, 60 business owners, and um, you know, it's not for everyone that kind of networking. And I'm starting to think it's not really my type either. So I'm drifting out and getting into smaller circles now.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

But look, Kate, that formal networking doesn't have to be the thing because you could be involved in a in a social club, in a sporting club, but you know, doing things like if you have a a branded work where or, you know, just any way of just letting people know that you socialize without we hate the heavy sell, but just letting people know, hey, I I fix air conditioners. Yeah, this is where you find me.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Yeah, just be out there telling people about what you do, make sure you've got business cards handy if need be. And yeah. Yeah. And if you are in a, you know, um in the phase of your business where you are trying to build quickly, networking is definitely a great way to get traction quickly. So find the local networking, you know, referral. Referral networking is the best um system for that if you're trying to get traction quickly, because typically you've got an exclusive spot in a group of you know um businesses. So if you're a landscaper, you're the only landscaper in that group, right? And so people can, the idea is they refer to you, and people make really good money doing that. So relationship referral marking, very, very important in the early days. And in the background, as you said, Sam, you should be working on your website, your search engine optimization, your social media profiles, making sure everything looks professional, building reviews, building social proof, because all of that helps people, it helps build that trust and credibility that you need when they come to buy. Yes. And I suppose the closing comment would be if you have any questions, come and join us on the 15th of April. Because we will be Sam and I will be live in a workshop environment here on Zoom, and we will be um offering our knowledge and coaching to anyone who has questions about marketing or um business identity or branding. Bring your questions along and because that will be the end of the revenue generation pillar.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

And yeah, if you have if you're stuck on revenue generation, come along and pick our brains and we'll see if we can get you moving in the right direction.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yeah, yeah, it's a great opportunity for people. You know, to get to get some eyes on their stuff.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Yes. Get some eyes on your stuff, ask the important questions that you've been stuck with, get our advice and opinions, and yeah, see if we um it'll I'm quite excited. I am too. All right. Well, thank you so much, everyone. We will be back uh with another episode next week on selling. So we look forward to seeing you then.

unknown 44:57

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

You've got the strategies. Now let's build the systems. Whether you're joining our workshops or transforming at our barley business retreat, we're here to help you scale without the burnout. Visit Thriving Business Podcast.com to join our community. Until next time, keep building a business that thrives.