Ep #10 | Stop Winging It: How to Design a Business Model That Gives You Revenue, Freedom and a Life

Welcome to Episode 10 of the Roadmap to Business Success series, and the first episode of Quadrant 3: Grow Smart | Capacity!

Most business owners start with a skill or a product, not a model. They figure it out as they go. And if you don't design your model intentionally, your business will design itself, and it usually designs itself into something that consumes your life.

In this episode, Kate and Sam get honest about the difference between accidental growth and intentional design, and why getting clear on your business model is the single most important thing you can do to create sustainable revenue, freedom and a business you actually love running.

"If you don't design your model, the business will design itself, and it usually designs itself into something that consumes your life."

In this episode, you will learn:

• Business model vs business plan vs business structure: Why these three terms are not interchangeable, and what each one actually means for your business
• The fragmented model trap: Why having multiple revenue streams that don't talk to each other creates chaos, exhaustion and a business that's almost impossible to scale, and how to fix it
• Intentional vs accidental growth: Why accidental businesses are usually chaotic and exhausting and the simple questions to ask yourself to design something that actually works
• Scale is a choice, not an obligation: Why 10x growth isn't the right goal for everyone, and how to design a business model around the lifestyle, freedom and revenue that actually lights you up
• Reverse engineer your profit goal: How to start with the number you want in your pocket and work backwards to figure out exactly what your business model needs to look like to get you there
• The product spiral, not the product ladder: Why Sam has banned the term "product ladder" and why a spiral or loop model that keeps clients circling through your offerings is far more powerful than a linear funnel with a dead end
• Recurring revenue as a non-negotiable: Why the businesses that are valued the highest, and feel the most stable to run, are the ones with subscription, membership or retainer income baked into their model
• The Matt Church cluster methodology: How launching one cluster every three to six months, one market, one problem, one method of delivery, and assuming 50% will fail gives you the freedom to experiment without betting everything on one idea
• Zone of genius as a design parameter: Why your business model should be built around the work that puts you in your zone of genius, not just the work you can do or the work that pays well
• Business should be boring: Why repeatability and predictability are the foundations of freedom, and why the excitement should come from your life, not your business

Kate and Sam also share personal stories about the moments they realised they were operating outside their zone of genius, why the Revenue Breakthrough Workshop felt so energising compared to a day of back-to-back one-on-one sessions, and why the question "what is your end game?" is one of the most important questions every business owner needs to answer.

Coming Up Next: Episode 11 To hire or not to hire? How to build a strong team, make smart hiring decisions, and create a business that doesn't depend entirely on you.

Join the Workshop: Kate and Sam are hosting Grow Smart: Scale with Ease on Wednesday 24th June, 9–10:30am AWST | 11am–12:30pm AEST,

 What is it?
90 minutes of live profitability coaching. Every participant walks away with a personalised report. Bring your business model questions, this workshop is the perfect place to get Kate and Sam's eyes on your model live.

🐦 Early bird: $49 (until 10 June) | 🎟️ LIVE: $89 | 🎧 Replay: $49

👉 Register here

And save the date! Bali Business Retreat: 27 August – 1 September 2026. Secure your spot with a $200 deposit. Reach out directly to lock in your place.

00:00 Podcast Welcome
01:57 Quadrant Three Begins
02:36 Model Plan Structure
04:55 Scattered Offers Trap
10:34 Designing Intentional Growth
14:04 Reverse Engineering Profit
17:26 Evolving Zone Genius
20:24 Joyful Work Choices
23:13 Group Work Momentum
24:12 Scaling Group Coaching
25:23 Small Rooms Big Results
26:12 Who Your Room Is For
26:56 From Courses To Coaching
27:57 Business Model Takeaways
31:14 Boring Business Wins
32:38 Predictability Beats Panic
35:40 Growing Teams With Purpose
40:15 Recurring Revenue Flywheel
42:52 Clusters Not One Niche
45:45 Workshop Invite And Topics
47:02 Product Loop Not Ladder
48:50 Wrap Up And Next Steps

Connect with Your Hosts:

Kate De Jong, PhD | Inspired Business 🌐 Website: https://katedejong.com/ 📱 Instagram: @katedejong.inspiredbusiness ✉️ Email: kate@katedejong.com

Sam Morris | The O8 🌐 Website: https://www.theo8.com/ 📱 Instagram: @the_o8crew ✉️ Email: sam@theo8.com

Thriving Business Podcast 🌐Website:   https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ 

JOIN OUR WORKSHOPS

🌐 https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/workshops

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Thriving Business, the podcast for ambitious business owners who want systematic growth without the burnout. Hosted by Kate De Yong and Sam Morris, these business powerhouses bring you proven frameworks and real strategies to help you build a business that actually thrives.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Welcome back, everyone, to the Thriving Business Podcast. I'm here with my co-host Sam Morris in Melbourne. Hello, Sam. Hello, Kate. So we have wrapped up quadrant two in our journey, the roadmap to business success. We have worked our way through the quadrant number one, which was revenue generation. Quadrant two was all about profitability and keeping the money that you earn and making it work hard for you through efficiency, through profit-first methodology and AI systems. So if you missed quadrant two, we unpacked profitability in a lot of detail. And we've had some really good feedback so far. We've seen excitingly a lot of downloads of our AI episode that's made us feel very chuffed this morning. So we only just published that one last night. So if you haven't listened to it yet, that's where Sam and I go through all our latest experimentations with AI, and it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah. And I didn't I actually start our conversation today, Kate, because you know I've got the dual monitors set up. And I actually said I'm sitting with you on one monitor recording this episode, and on my other monitor, I have the cord extension updating my program for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yes, which is amazing. So Sam is living and breathing this um agentic AI, where as we are recording, she's got her little bots working away for her, doing stuff on the side, which is so cool. Yeah. But yeah, we talked about productivity on steroids, and that's definitely what AI is helping us do in this modern era. So yeah, um, check it out if you haven't listened to those four episodes on profitability. So now we are moving into the third quadrant of our thriving business wheel, and that is all about capacity and your ability to grow. So we've covered making the money with revenue generation profitability, which is keeping the money and making it work efficiently. And then now it's all about growth. So the capacity you have in your business to grow. And the very first topic off the rank for that quadrant is your business model. And you and I were having a conversation before we started recording, Sam, about how your business model is different to your business plan or your business structure. So yeah, tell us a bit more about that.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Well, I think people that there are so many interchangeable terms in the business world. And I think people get really confused about what they all mean. So, to be very clear, the business structure is the legal structure in which you operate, whether you're a company or a sole trader or a partnership or a trust, yeah, that that kind of thing. So what was the what was the next one, Kate? My mind's just gone away.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Uh business plan.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Oh, business plan. Yeah. Oh my goodness. The business plan is the living breathing document in which you have written down everything about your business. And then we have your business model. And as you put it so beautifully, Kate, before, your business model is how revenue moves through your business, how it comes in to you.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Yeah. Yeah. And business plans, while we're on that topic, you know, people invest a lot of time and money in doing these very lengthy 50 to 100 page documents that end up sitting on their um shelf. But I love working with a dynamic one-page business plan, which just has those um four key pillars on it about, you know, um, yeah, it's your it's your roadmap and your blueprint for success. So maybe we can, you know, we could touch on that at some point. But business model is, yeah, it's as you said, Sam, it's how you um move money through your business and how you bring money in and move it through. And it's so we were saying, so should this have belonged in the revenue generation quadrant? And yes, it quite possibly could have, because your business model is about how you generate revenue, but it also determines your capacity to grow because you're we're in the revenue generation segment, we were looking at different revenue streams, right? We were helping people work through what could be a lucrative revenue stream. So you're focusing on one target market, one specific offering, one problem you solve, and that's a revenue stream. A business model is you would have multiple revenue streams all working in harmony together. And harmony is the key because as you said before we started, Sam, you've seen many businesses where a business model is very fragmented.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Yes, Kate, this is a big mistake people make is that they think, you know, there's so much information out there about having a product ladder or a value ladder. And people come in and, you know, let's just talk about coaching, and we'll use coaching as an example. And I've got a little case study here that I will go through. Um so Sarah is a business coach. Okay. Now she's got so many weird and wonderful talents, and she has built this business that is exhausting her because her business model is very scattered. So what she has done is she's created digital products that she sells on Instagram. She has a course, a low-ticket course, she does VIP days, she has a membership, and she has a really high-ticket uh done for you social media package. So all of that sounds wonderful, and it's all well within the realm of what she can do really well. But those revenue streams, all of those things, do not talk to each other. So they are not one business model. They are not one thing that links to the next thing that links to the next thing in a really obvious way. And that's what a business model is. It's it's how all of your revenue is tied into one thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah. Yeah. And as and in this case, she's offering a done for you marketing service, which is very different to business coaching. And yes, she can do that, but is it is she confusing her market? Is she a marketing agency or is she a business coach? And you know, what yeah, and and spreading yourself too thin like that, because we know personally how hard it is doing running marketing campaigns for people and time consuming, and then to try and do that and business coach, it does scatter your focus. And and we say this often, just because you can do all the things doesn't mean you should do all the things.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Exactly. Exactly. Everything in your business, every single product and offer should have a relationship with everything else that you're doing. One core one core service. Yeah, don't don't be Kmart. And you know, everybody loves Kmart, but really Kmart is all the things for all the people. We're we're just usually very small teams or just one person operating a business. We can't be the Kmart of the service world. So we need to think very clearly about what is what is your primary offer, what what is that one product, and when I say product, I mean service also. What is that one thing that is your favorite thing to do that you love delivering? And then you fill out your business with everything that is directly related to that one thing you love doing. Here's a trick that I tell people when they're thinking about, okay, I I'm gonna do this coaching program. I'll again I'll stick with coaching because it's really easy to pick it apart. This is my coaching program, but I need a lead magnet to get people into my coaching program. So rather than create a lead magnet that is directly related to the coaching program, they think of some weird and why weird and wonderful random thing that they think might be popular and then wonder why that lead magnet, the people that get that lead magnet aren't hurting. There's no relationship there.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting that you think they they do it because they think it will be popular. Um, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, because they're just thinking about how can I get big numbers onto my email list so that I can sell to them.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

But they're not the right numbers getting onto, they're not the right people getting onto the email list in the first place because you're pitching a different pain problem or something. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, interesting. So many people start with a um start a business with a skill or a product, not a model, and then figure it out as they go. Yeah. Um, yeah, and and in the research you and I were doing, I love this quote. If you don't design your model intentionally, your business will design itself, and it usually design designs itself into something that consumes your life. That is actually so true. I know, we've both experienced that.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yes, yes, we have. Yeah, because look, when you're starting out, I get it, you know, there's that panic around trying to find that thing that'll hit.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

But it even when you do that, if there is no connectivity, it it's a one-hit wonder.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, and it's a huge effort to get that one hit.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Oh, absolutely. And it's usually not repeatable either, because no market conditions change, and yeah, yeah. Sorry, yeah, were you gonna say something?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Oh I was gonna say you you do see a lot of that when people go to find a coaching program or a coach because they have had that little bit of success, they have no idea how they did it, and they've got no idea how to repeat it.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yes, yeah, we have experienced that too, where we've put programs out and it's gone really well, and we get 30 people in a room, and then we try it again and it falls flat. And yes. So, yeah, and interestingly, here there are two ways businesses can grow, intentionally or accidentally. Accidental grown businesses are usually chaotic, exhausting, and almost impossible to scale. Yes, yeah. So intentional designs means asking what do I want this business to look like in three years? What kind of clients, what kind of revenue, what kind of lifestyle, and then work backwards from there, and that's your business model.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah. I I like to think of it as the accidental entrepreneurs, they're the surfers that, you know, are just learning and they they catch a wave, they've got they don't know how they caught the wave, but they get out there and they're trying, and you know, wave picks them up and then they dump off the back. Or you've got the intentional entrepreneurs who have like stuffed the surfboard. I've got a boat up sailing.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

It's very stable and comfortable and just cruises along. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And I guess that is, you know, it when we're thinking of your business model, you do need to ask yourself the question of what does success look like to you? Because there's this myth in business culture that you have to always be growing or and scaling. And if you're not growing, you're dying. But is that actually true? Because I know for me personally, I love to be growing intellectually and and um, and of course, um, growing your revenue is always a beautiful thing, growing the profit in your business and building wealth, all of that. But I don't want to do 10x scaling, if you know what I mean. I love my independence of being just me and having a small, you know, small support team around me, but it's very intentional. I'd love to, you know, yes, you can scale your revenue 10x, but your business model doesn't have to mean you have to have a team of 100 people under you, you know. So, yeah, what is it that you're actually chasing? For some people, that is the dream. I've got a couple of clients at the moment, they want the big company that they can sell down the line. So that's their and I guess that's the it's the what is your end game?

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Um, most most people don't know that, Kate, do they? They really don't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

No. Yeah, and so you've got to ask yourself those questions. Um, are you a lifestyle business owner where the goal is freedom and flexibility and financial independence, not 10x growth? Like, you know, what is that revenue number that would be sweet to achieve and feel so good? And you know, and make that what you're you're working towards and make sure that the business model is go is something that's going to be that boat on the on the rough seas, you know, that can get you there.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah, yeah. And Kate, I think too that there is something that I love to do because you know I I do love to have a million ideas an hour. That's that's how fast I travel. And they're not all good ideas, and some of them are good ideas that I just I should not do because they don't fit into my business model. So when I get this brilliant spark of an idea, haha, not always brilliant. When I when I come up with these wacky ideas, I jump straight into AI as my pretend business coach, but my AI is trained to disagree with me and not agree with me. So I've got it, it I make it tell me all the ways in which I'm wrong. I can either argue that I'm right or I can accept that yeah, yeah, it's wrong. But here's the thing the two questions I always ask is I mean, apart from, you know, is the does the idea have potential to be profitable? But where does this fit into my business model? Does it fit in at all? And what is the impact of including this product on my business with regard to the amount of time it's going to take, the energy it's gonna take, and the impact on my profitability? Not my revenue, my profitability. Correct. Yeah, yeah, good point. I don't think enough people are reverse engineering this stuff. Because if you've got this revenue figure in your head, or you know, and I always try and say profit figure, you need a profit figure, how much do you want in your pocket? Right. But have that number in mind and then put your business model into that and get AI to unpack what that's going to look like. If you've got a membership, how many members are you going to need? Um, how many coaching clients can you tackle? Because if your if your idea of earning, you know, clearing into your bank account a million dollars a year and you're running private coaching clients at $1,000 each, clearly that's not going to work. That's right. Yeah. But if you love doing the one-on-one coaching and you and you are very happy with these $1,000 clients, that doesn't mean you can't keep them, but it means you need to explore how to stretch that business model out with additional products to support getting you to that profit goal.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Yes. That and that is where the reverse engineering is so important to map all of that out. Yeah. Yes.

unknown 15:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

So you might have a revenue goal, but um, what's the business model that's going to get you there in a in a way that gives you the lifestyle freedom you want?

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yes. Yeah. And I always too like to look for don't don't give me the top performers that are doing a million dollars. I want what are the what are the average people doing? Because we can't all be in that 1%. Because then it's not 1% anymore.

unknown 16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

And we defy the global statistics. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So some of the the fun quotes that came up during this research was um scale is a choice, not an obligation. So you know, as we said, just thinking clearly about what is your your growth goal. Um, most businesses don't fail because of a bad idea, they fail because of a bad model. And yeah, that that's definitely true from what I've seen. And yeah, um, sometimes you need to try things to know if they've got legs to go the distance as well. So there is that piece as well. So this collaboration that you and I are doing, Sam, was an experiment to see does this have traction in our business models, right? Exactly. Yes. And so far it seems that feedback is really good. So this is something we might more formally include in our own business models. Yes, yeah. And I find that my business model is something that's constantly evolving. Um, but you do always need to think intentionally. And and the other piece that I was thinking of, this gets a bit woo-woo, as you and I sometimes tend to do, but we are going to be talking about human design in in quadrant four when it comes to self-awareness and so on. But there are also the things that we are naturally wired to do when we do easily and well, and as we call that that are in your zone of genius, and they're the things that you and I have both figured out that we thrive best in collaboration and groups as opposed to individual one-on-one coaching. Yes. So you do need to get that clarity as well around where do you thrive most? What's easiest? Um, and we've had a lovely experience with this podcast. Um, you know, 16 episode series, seeing real momentum and traction build, and it's that positive confirmation that yeah, this is what we're good at, this is what we thrive doing. So now how do we embed it into our own business model? You know, so yeah, there's that too. It's very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

It is very exciting, and I think too, let's not lose sight of the fact that it's not just about the money. We really enjoy the work. That's right. We really enjoyed this work, and you know, we've gone through periods where we've done things we haven't enjoyed. Yeah, so nothing wrong with the experimentation, but we're just trying to share awareness of understanding how the experiments fit into the grand scheme of things.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

I also love okay, you picked up on something that we haven't discussed yet, which is you don't have to lock in a business model. Yeah, this is something that can definitely change over time.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Yeah, I think the key, that's right, and it does evolve. Um the key is is that intentionality and the clarity, I think, around okay, what is the end goal? So um, in my case, I love being a solo operator, but to that means to achieve my revenue goal, if I reverse engineer that, um, I can't do that just with coaching. It needs to be with public speaking and um and writing books and and doing um speaking gigs off the back of that. So yeah, once you get really clear on what that number is, what are the different activities you can do to feel that to to you know generate that that goal that you have, that are the things you love doing. And yeah, that clarity can take time, uh, but it's and it does evolve. So, and every now and then we try something and we think, yeah, no, no, I'm gonna come back and stick to my lane. So I I thought for a while that that I wanted to get back into corporate workshops. Um, you know, doing it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

What made you think of doing that?

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Because, well, to be honest, I know you can make good money doing that. I used to do that back in my corporate days. I used to facilitate strategic workshops for clients, and um, we do all day workshops with teams of 15, 20 people, and so I know I can do it, I know I'm good at it, and I know you can make good money doing it. But I had an experience where I went back and and um did one of those and realized, no, I yes, I can do it. Um, yes, it pays well, but did I enjoy it? Oh, it just it almost um I almost had PTSD from all the old corporate BS and politics and hidden agendas and people with different um personality dynamics going on in the room and a lot of people with a complete lack of self-awareness. Um I just suddenly went, yeah, no, I can do this work, but does it bring me joy? No, it does not. Yeah. And so I had to really cut pull back and think, okay, because in my mind, my logical brain's saying, you can do this stuff, it pays well, you should be doing that stuff. Did it, you know, and that's what a lot of business owners I know get trapped thinking that. But if it doesn't bring you joy, if it doesn't put you in your zone of genius, if you don't come home at the end of that day and go, oh my gosh, I love that so much, um, then it's not you've got to let go of that idea that you can make a lot of money off it because no matter how hard you push, um When you're not in your zone of genius, you're not loving it, it's just a it's a it's a lot, it's a bigger struggle and it's not fun. Whereas when I flew up north to do the um the talk for International Women's Day for Karatha District, Chamber of Districts, um the um Chamber of Commerce up in Karatha, I just came back that night and I was on Cloud9. I was like, oh my gosh, I love this. I love public speaking and I love that topic, which was all about helping women rebalance the scales and you know, when everything around them is changing. And and then you sort of get those feedback um signals, okay, I need to do more of that. Um, and just getting really intentional around I want to, you know, in your business model, these are the activities that I love doing that I can do that bring in good money. How do I, you know, really orientate myself towards those? And quite often the path to get there is not clear. Like I don't, I don't really have a plan, but um, but somehow that intentionality, when I know that public speaking forms a part of a formal part of my business model, the gigs just start appearing or opportunities start appearing, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

So yes, yeah, yeah, Kate, I can really relate to that. You know, after after we delivered our workshop, honestly, I loved that so much. I love the collaboration with you and the, you know, and and learning more and more about leadership every time I sit in the same space as you. And I loved the people and the interaction.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

You're talking about the revenue generation workshop we did two weeks ago. Yeah, in April. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yeah. And and versus um, I had I followed that a couple of days later with five one-on-one sessions in a day, to which I was absolutely exhausted. And I was just like, no, no, no, this is just not for me. Yeah, and we all know that there's more money, you know, but the perception is there's more money in the one-on-one work because you need volume for group work. Yeah, but I just can't. You know, it's just not my lane. I love the dynamic of a group of people, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Same. And and you and I feed off each other well in that environment. So yeah, and we're both in our zone of genius in that situation. So it's yeah, and the and so the challenge for you and I is how do we how do we scale that? Is it true that we can only um have 12 people? Because that's what we said we wanted to make sure it was small enough that there were enough people in the room so that everyone got enough attention on their challenges. Yeah. Um, and the question is, you know, we have to look at our business model on that. Around, is that true that we can only give people attention if there's 12 people in the room? If there were 20, 30, 40, would they still get the same result? Um, or hundred? Because I see some coaches uh running group coaching workshops with hundreds of people online.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yes, they do.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

I guess the question is always do you get the results that you you know, it it's about what feels right to you. Um do you know what I mean? Like it's not just about getting the people in the room, are they actually getting results from that situation?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yes. And I think because ensuring that value is like, you know, delivering value is number one for both of us. I think that's why we feel like keeping the keeping our rooms quite small means that we can really focus on people. Now I know what it's like sitting on the other side of being the participant in a room with like a hundred other people and it allows you to sit and be invisible. It doesn't mean I don't get any value, yeah. But when I'm in a room of 10, there is nowhere to hide. And I force myself into those spaces because I know I will hide in the large group.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

And there's a lot of people that do want to hide in the large group. So are we not attracting those people because we have small groups, you know?

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Well, this is where we have to get really, really clear on who our audience is, who our ideal avatar is. And is it the person that wants to hide in a big group, or is it the person that wants to be encouraged to come out of their shell a little bit in a smaller space?

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah. Yeah, because I think early on in my um coaching career, I did so many online courses, and the majority were large groups where I wasn't visible in the background, but I still got massive learning from it. Um I did my entire Enneagram certification in a large group program, and no one probably even knew I was there, but I got the certification, I got the value. I did all that. So maybe it is a limiting belief that you and I have. Don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yes, yes, but that was a course. How would it have gone if that was coaching?

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Different.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yeah, it's a different, you know, but then Tony Robbins isn't doing courts courses with in front of 10,000 people, is he?

SPEAKER_02 27:11

He's doing live coaching and live experiences, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

And he is not constrained by the 12 number at all. He's got thousands of people that exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

So I suppose it depends on on our willingness to expand and push and reach. And and I think too that Kate that will come over time, you know. And you know, Tony Robbins has decades of experience under his belt in which he knows how to work that room so that every single person in there feels like they've had this massive life shift. That's right. Yeah. He didn't start with that, he started one-on-one.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yeah, true. Yeah, so what's the what's the the takeaway we want people to take from this?

SPEAKER_01 28:02

So yes, the takeaway, I believe, is have a really good look at your business model, understand what your revenue streams are and how they are connected, because if they are disconnected, then uh I would hazard a guess to say that your business is probably gonna have some kind of fouled up system or you're gonna be pushing really hard to grow it. That's that's that's where I sit with that. I think you're gonna hit problems.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and there's you know, with there's so many different types of businesses. The business model is gonna depend very much on whether you know, you're a traditional small business providing a very standard service. Your business model will be quite standard in, you know, in the you say you're an accounting agency or you're um, you know, that it it can be a lot simpler, but your business model needs to be clear. And in that case, you've got staff working for you, they need to know their their role in the in the in the organization. But then you've got um, you know, we've been talking about the thought leaders and the solopreneurs, the coaches, consultants. There, that that's where it gets a little bit more um experimental and fluid because quite often they're unique offerings or not standards, and and and that's a process of experimenting quite often. And then you've got the entrepreneurial types that are trying to get a product to market and it's innovative, and and then quite often there's you know, e-commerce involved, and that's a whole other ball game as well. So that business model is very different. Um, and I guess what you and I know best is helping, you know, the small solopreneurs and the the small business people that have left the corporate world want to practice their craft and run a small business and do what they love with the financial freedom.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, yeah. Um don't don't sell yo don't sell yo-yos if your business is elephant rides.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Right. That's true. Yeah. So, and because you run a very traditional um business on the side, Sam, with your husband's um PS Yeah, and that business model I would say is quite clear, right? Do you ever do you ever review that? Do you need to sit down and look at the business model, or is that stayed fairly much the same?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Uh that has stayed the same. Okay. We know our lane. What does change is tweaking and updating uh our service delivery, tweaking and updating our pricing, that like as in how the pricing is structured, how we charge for things. Uh yes, but the actual business model remains unchanged.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

It works. So we've got we've got the room to move inside of that model, and that's all we need.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Yeah, beautiful. Which is that reliability and consistency. We said in the previous episodes, business should be boring, as in.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Um, it should be repeatable, predictable, you know, get to that point where it's a known quantity and you know what money you can make from it, and so on. And that's ultimately what we all strive towards. Not that we want to run boring businesses. We we still want to have fun and be creative, but have that consistency and repeatability in it. The predictability is what and the repeatability is is what allow it's that infrastructure that allows you to relax and uh and be creative because the stability is there. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah, I think I think too many people get this backwards. We want business to be boring and life to be exciting. And I think too many people are looking for the excitement inside the business, and then they have nothing left, and life is boring.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Oh, terrible. Yeah, we don't want that.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

We do not want that.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Yeah, but it is the trap where business owners get stuck doing all the things, and you, you know, it's that old quote, a business is like a monster, you turn your back on it for a second, it'll eat you alive. And I guess that's what we're saying here. This the business model is being very intentional about how do I set up a business that is not going to eat me alive if I turn my back on it.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

And we do want to be at the point where it's boring and repeatable, but we do want to have fun while doing that work. So I guess boring and repeatable means that you're the anxiety is gone out of it. I remember so clearly those times where I didn't know where my next client was coming from. I didn't know if I was going to be able to pay, you know, all the things to keep my business alive. This is going back pre-COVID when I didn't have that consistent repeatability put um in my business. And if one client would say no, and I've been pinning my hopes on that, and just the terror that would, you know, grip me of, oh my gosh, how am I going to survive? And no one wants to be there. That is just awful. You know, there's that anxiety about where's my revenue? How how am I going to keep my pipeline alive? So I guess what we're saying is the business model is your pathway to to having that intentionality and creating that that boring predictability and so on.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Yes, yes. And you you you're craving that, like, and and Kate, 99% of business owners do start out exactly in that space of it's awful. Where are we getting gonna get clients? You know, and the internet and social media is filled with people who offering to help you get more clients and fill your pipeline and do all of those things. But where we make the mistake is that once we've got that figured out and it becomes boring, we tend to stuff it up so it's not boring anymore.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Yeah, true. Yeah, because we want the excitement. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Yeah. And I guess for those that I mean, there are quite a few businesses I know of that have the boring ads that just work and they keep, you know, bringing in the consistent flow of clients and money. And yeah, it is boring, but there's other ways you can experiment. I think when you've got that um repeatability there, it gives you the freedom to be more creative and try different things because you're not dependent on those creative things working out. But um, for someone who does have that vision of growing a company um to, you know, um 10 staff and upwards, that is like a journey that I've worked with many clients on mapping that out as a business model, you know, and all the steps that it's going to take to, and it goes back to our last episode on outsourcing and delegating. It's like you have to have a business with systems and procedures in place before you hire anyone or or delegate or take on, but thinking very intentionally through that and then having a process to work through it. So for those of you whose business model is around growing staff and so on, that is a whole different journey. But regardless, it's it's what we say about getting intentional of what's the end result that I feel is going to really light me up. What's you know, what am I working towards? And then yeah, working backwards from there.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Yes, yeah. And that that's why I started including uh in in staff contracts, I've started including the goal. And it's the goal for the staff member and the goal for the business based on what that staff member's bringing to the table.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Interesting. Yeah, we talked touched on that in the last episode, didn't we? But do you feel that's worked well for you? Because you're hiring someone at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Yeah, well, it's an it is a new thing that I've just started doing. But I really see like we're working with people, and the shift is definitely there in how you engage applicants, how you hire, and how you treat staff. All of that has changed dramatically. So there is so much talk around the cost of living and money and everything else. But Kate, we know that money isn't necessarily the primary driver for what makes people perform at work. It's only a big conversation when people are struggling financially. Yeah. But the fulfillment from employment doesn't for most people doesn't come from the money.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

It's so true. And what you're doing is putting the purpose component into your job descriptions. It's like this, you know, this might seem like a boring job, but here's where you fit into the big picture. And and for you personally, you can have these benefits, um, which might be flexibility, is that right? And freedom to work around their family needs or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Yeah, well, and what and it has to be tailored to what's important to that person beyond money. What kind of person are they? Are they family oriented? You know, are they on a health and wellness journey in which they want to go to the gym every morning? Like, what does this look like for people and how does that relate? And giving them a purpose inside of the business, helping people understand how valuable their contribution is, whether they're the lowest person on the ladder or the top person on the ladder, everybody's got a really important role to play in delivering everything within that business model.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

So I think you mentioned you're hiring this first person at the moment as we speak.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Um the first person they haven't started, they they start next week.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

That'd be really interesting to see how that. But do you do you feel that this process of putting that purpose component and um what in into the job description, did that help the hiring process and with the selection of this person?

SPEAKER_01 38:23

I think what it has done is has uh I've totally shifted the whole hiring process. And I've been absolutely, you know, we've gone from having a very long time of trying to pick stuff from a very dry well. Yeah, not a lot of that applicants. I feel like I'm um financially supporting the the shareholders of Seek. Yeah, yeah, with no staff to show for it. So I really had to learn to change all of my thinking around what that process looks like and really dived into okay, what sort of person do I want? They've got to have a couple of skills, and why do they want to come and work here? Like what is their end game and how does that fit in with our end game? Because once you marry those two things up, that's when you've got the beginnings of a really great team.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Yeah, yeah. It'll be interesting to see how this new hire goes.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yeah, yeah. Look, I I'm I'm bracing for the fact that there are going to be ruffled feathers because there's going to be change. Yeah. And you know, some people struggle with like genuinely struggle with change, like Dave. Yeah. You know, um, and so when I say ruffled feathers, I just mean that people are gonna start to feel a little bit uncomfortable with changes that are gonna happen. But I think if we communicate clearly the purpose of the changes, it makes it easier for people to absorb them.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Well, it's back to the Simon Sinek thing, isn't it? If someone understands if someone understands why you're doing something, they're very happy to comply. Yeah. Yes, yeah. And something we probably should mention is that you know, when in in any business model, it's um the it's it's a good idea to strive towards something that has subscription or retainer or repeatable revenue, recurring revenue. That's the word. Yeah, yeah. And businesses, um, I I've got a colleague who's a business broker, and so he um you know buys and sells businesses for people and and values, gets people to value their businesses. And the businesses that are valued the highest are those with that recurring revenue where it's just rinse and repeat, and um people are on subscription or on a membership or um on a service that they pay for regularly. And yes, you've got attrition and you know, people coming and going, but the bulk client base is there. So that is something um that we all need to work towards. And I know that when I was running my mastermind several years ago, it was a great baseline revenue source for me. Just the money comes in every month, and um, yeah, you've got that to rely on. So, especially for the coaches, consultants, thought leaders out there, what could you create that is a membership model? Um, and if it is something that's you know low cost and affordable, then in that case it is about building the volume. Yes. Or are you going to go for something a little more high touch? Um, so higher cost that is um, you know, that that um people will pay for, whether it's uh indefinitely or if it's you know, what is what is that model that's going to give you the repeatable revenue?

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Absolutely. And I think too people, a lot of people focus on trying to get that revenue, recurring revenue up front at the start of their funnel. And that's that that is a good place to start. But you also want to have it at the end of that journey for your customers. So whatever you're leading them to, you want to finish with some recurring revenue. You don't want people to be lost at the end of whatever pipeline you're pushing people through.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Yeah. So if there's some way at the end for them to stay connected to you and your community at a low cost, that's ideal because you've got the relationship. They, you know, yeah. Yeah. So um that was just something that I thought we should probably bring up, that that is um very important to include in your business model when you're, you know, when you're thinking about it. And and that relationship of A leads to B, leads to C, leads to D, and and how are you completing that full cycle? And yeah, we we talk um, you know, when we've talked about thought leadership in the Matt Church philosophy, he's all about um thought leaders as he calls them. People like you and I, we're you know, coaches, consultants, uh, and a lot of our clients that come, half of the workshop that we had last week are were thought leaders, right? They're coaches, consultants. And yeah, he he I love it. It was such freedom when we had him on the show and and learned about his methodology because he talks about clusters, which are one revenue stream, which is one market you serve, one um problem you solve, and one method of delivery. So maybe that's your group coaching, and then you've got maybe your public speaking cluster, and and I love the fluidity in that. He says launch launch a new cluster every three months or six months, depending on your business cadence, and assume that half of them will fail. Yes. And um, once you get one that sticks, though, you start that what we're talking about about um really solidifying the processes. And the repeatability around that and make that your solid staple offering. Yes. And then figure out how any additional clusters could feed into that or um or complement that. And yeah, so that is a really good methodology. We've done an episode on that way back.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

So if you scroll, if you're interested on the Matt Church thought leadership methodology, we should get in back on Kate, because I feel like our understanding of his methodology has evolved so much. And in so many of the conversations we've had in this season, too, we've been able to relate it back to Matt's teachings. So it'd be when we finish, we should we should invite him back on to talk through it again.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Okay. Challenge accepted.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Matt, if you're listening, come back.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And he was the one because remember, most businesses, oh, we know we have to wrap up now, but a lot of businesses get caught in the trap of thinking they have to have one niche, one um, you know, one sort of specific product offering. Whereas he gives you that freedom to think a bit more expansively around that. You can have different clusters. They might be solving different problems for different people. But I think as long as there's harmony, like we're going back to what we talked about in the beginning, as long as it all makes sense within the framework of your zone of genius. Um, yeah, as long as they're all sort of interrelated and interconnected, you can build a really harmonious business model, you know, um, with different target markets. Yeah, and I think that's the thing. Everyone gets so fixated on one target market. Yeah, there are, yeah. Anyway, come along to the workshop if you're feeling confused about your business model. Yes. Come along to the workshop on the 20th of May. We will be Sam and I reviewed the previous workshop and decided we're going to manage the timer even more tightly. Um, so because the live coaching was where all the gold happened. And um, yeah, we're gonna make sure that this um on the we had amazing feedback on the last workshop, but this next one, it's literally gonna be live coaching from within five minutes of starting for nine minutes. And each person gets five minutes um, you know, personalized attention and more if we have time for it. But yeah, if you've got any questions on your business model, come and bring them along and we will try to answer them for you live.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Yes. And also on anything else in the quadrant.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Yes, that's right. So we've um coming up, yeah. So that was money mastery. The one on the 20th, we will be covering off money mastery and the profit first methodology, your pricing strategy, AI systems for efficiency and outsourcing and delegating. So if any of those topics uh are something you struggle with or you have questions around, please come along and um we will try to help you with those. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

And Kate, I think too, I'm going to try and train myself to stop saying product ladder because one thing is very evident from our conversation today, and my brain is a bit slow and has just made this connection, that it is not a ladder. Because what I've said earlier was about making sure that you retain people with that recurring revenue when you've when they finish traveling through this pipeline. So it needs to be reimagined. It's not a ladder because a ladder has a start and a finish. It's linear, yeah. It needs to be a loop or a product loop or a product spiral where people are just circling around and around through your offerings. I like the idea of a spiral because that's also sort of fits in with the theme of how you adjust and transition and tweak your offerings over time. So we get we have to ban product letters.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

I think so, because they are very linear and yeah, and a good business model is interconnected and harmonious different things working together harmoniously to keep people in your engage with your brand as long as you can keep giving them value. Yeah. Yeah. So um interesting. Isn't it? I mean, my brain's already it in overdrive thinking about my own business model and our business model, Sam. So I think we need to um sit and do some some brainstorming as well. So we're I love brainstorming.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

That's my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Of course, we'll have Claude sitting on the sides to help to give us a bit of stimul, you know, a bit of all right. Well, thank you everyone. We hope this episode was helpful. Um, we look forward to seeing you on the 20th of May. If you can join us, and we will put the the link to get tickets in the show notes. So keep an eye out for that. And in the meantime, have fun growing your business. We'll see you again next time. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

You've got the strategies. Now let's build the systems. Whether you're joining our workshops or transforming at our barley business retreat, we're here to help you scale without the burnout. Visit Thriving Business Podcast.com to join our community. Until next time, keep building a business that thrives.