Thriving Business
THRIVING BUSINESS
Business Insights to Help You Grow Your Business with Ease
We’re two seasoned business owners — Sam Morris and Kate De Jong — sharing our nearly thirty-year combined experience of starting and growing service-based businesses from the ground up. We so many small businesses struggling or falling prey to expensive promises of quick fixes or silver bullets. Both of us know what it REALLY takes to start and grow a business, we've done it many times over and we've got the blisters to prove it! We’ve joined forces to share our knowledge and experience so you can find the easiest path to success, doing it your way, and most importantly — staying true to yourself.
Thriving Business
Full Disclosure - When the Truth Finally Comes Out
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Send a question or message to Kate & Sam
Full Disclosure: Business Pivots, Finding Your Alignment & What’s Next for Us
In this candid episode of the Thriving Business Podcast, hosts Kate De Jong and Sam Morris return from a month-long break for an open and honest "full disclosure" conversation. Fresh off their business retreat in Sanur, Bali, Kate and Sam reflect on the importance of creating spaciousness, listening to intuition, and making brave pivots when things no longer feel aligned in business.
Key Discussion Points & Takeaways:
- The Power of Spaciousness: Highlights from their 5-day Bali retreat on why slowing down and stepping out of daily operations allows essential recovery and expansive visioning to take place.
- Full Disclosure on "The Engine Room": Why Kate and Sam made the decision to pull the pin on their planned program, The Engine Room, after recognizing resistance and misalignmen.
- Human Design & Personal Alignment: How exploring Human Design helped Sam realize her natural wiring as a Generator—preferring behind-the-scenes consulting, systems, and tool creation over live group coaching.
- Skill Sets vs. Energy Drivers: The crucial distinction between being skilled at something and being genuinely energized by it, plus how Kate and Sam balance their complementary strengths in leadership, marketing, and systems.
- Pivots & Market Feedback: Why trying new offers that don't take off isn't a failure, but essential feedback that highlighted their audience's biggest demand: revenue generation and AI implementation.
- What's Coming Next: The upcoming transition to the Business Launch Pad—a resource providing self-paced AI prompts across all quadrants of the Thriving Business Wheel.
Thriving Business Podcast 🌐Website: https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/
Thriving Business Launchpad 🌐Website: https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/thriving-business-launchpad
Connect with Your Hosts:
Kate De Jong, PhD | Inspired Business
🌐 Website: https://katedejong.com/
📱 Instagram: @katedejong.inspiredbusiness
✉️ Email: kate@katedejong.com
Sam Morris | The O8
🌐 Website: https://www.theo8.com/
📱 Instagram: @the_o8crew
✉️ Email: sam@theo8.com
GET THE AI SETUP WORKBOOK
🌐 https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ai-setup-workbook
They have over 30 years of business ownership between them and counting. They are Kate De Jong and Sam Morris. Each week they work through what you earn, what you keep, how you grow, and how you lead a thriving business. This is the Thriving Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_01Hello everyone and welcome back to the Thriving Business Podcast. I'm Kate De Young and I'm based here in Perth. And my beautiful co-host Sam Morris is over in Melbourne. Hi, Sam. Hello, Kate. Nice to be back here with you. Feels like it's been ages. It well, but it has been ages. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's been aging since we've been podcasting.
SPEAKER_01It's been a whole month and we feel a bit remiss in leaving everyone hanging so long, but stuff's been happening. And today's episode, we're calling full disclosure because we have some things to share.
SPEAKER_02We do, we do. And let's be real, Kay. If people really wanted to be connected with us, they would have been with us in Bali because that's where we were in between these episodes.
SPEAKER_01That's true. Yes. We did spend what was it, four nights, five days in beautiful Bali on the Sunua coast and on the east coast in the town of Sunua, I should say. Beautiful spot right on the beach.
SPEAKER_02And it's my new favorite spot in Bali.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I loved it so much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's really nice away from all the touristy stuff over on the west coast, which is all the Kuta, Lekyan, semi-chungu pallava, which is beautiful, but you've got to be in the right headspace for it. Yeah. So we had a really nice relaxed time, and then there were six of us in total. We spent three pretty much full days visioning and working on the business.
SPEAKER_03Me too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And a lot of that was the implementation of AI because that seems to be the pain point that most people have at the moment is what do I do? How do I do it? Show me how can it help me? And just clarifying all the myths that are out there. A lot of people have some misconceptions about what it can and can't do, and think it's this magic black box that you tell it to do something and it does it. Whereas it involves a lot of setup, as as we've been helping people figure out.
SPEAKER_02Yes. I think too, I think this is really important to say up front. One of the premises of going on retreat is to have the opportunity to create some space. And I think that the when people turn up to the retreat, it was a very good example of business owners, and and I'm including myself in this too. Business owners who have been running at full speed for so long that it's kind of a little bit of a shock to slow down and and realize what it feels like just to settle for a minute and and have that space to think. Yeah. Because you're so used to not having it. It becomes your normal and and it's not good for you when it's not normal.
SPEAKER_01No, and we did talk about that especially on the first day when we gave everyone instructions to not think about solutions or how, but this was purely about divergent thinking and thinking expansively. And we talked about the sine curve, the sine wave, and how all things in nature need, if there's exerted effort, needs an equal amount of rest and recovery in order to stay whole and in equilibrium and in harmony. And we talked about how most of us exert so much effort, but there's not a lot of equal recovery and rest going on. But actually, you know, a lot of the philosophy we were working through on the first day was around how your best work is actually done when you're not working, if you have a really clear vision. And so the part of the first day was helping people get clearer more what is that vision and what is the clarity that we need that is then going to when we switch off our subconscious mind goes to work, working towards that vision. And that's where really powerful stuff can happen. I think for you, Sam, that spaciousness also created the space that you needed to have some big insights drop in for yourself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Oh gosh. First of all, I think I loved so much the way this retreat was structured with finishing a little bit earlier in the day than what we did at the last retreat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we didn't know.
SPEAKER_02Allowing yeah, allowing that personal time and and also what I really enjoyed was connecting with the other people at the retreat in that free time. So it wasn't business, it was you know, going and getting a pedicure or a massage or just doing a bit of shopping and and connecting with people on a human level rather than just talking about business.
SPEAKER_01That's right. But but people that understand the journey you're on as well and and get it. And yeah, yeah. It was lovely having we f finished at two o'clock every afternoon, yeah, and then yeah, as you said, had that free time. And so, in the nature in the nature of full disclosure, we thought we would be very authentic and honest today about where we are at as a podcast and as a collaboration, because a lot of people have been asking about the program that we were launching, which we did a very quiet announcement. Well, I did, it was buried in the bottom of an email, and that's be maybe because my subconscious knew we weren't ready to go full out yet.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But yes, you and I were planning to launch the engine room this Friday, but in terms of a free information session for people to come along and learn what it's about. However, the spaciousness gave you the time to consider whether that's the right path forward for you.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and it is not, and it's been a bit it's been a little bit of a wrestle between two worlds because one of those worlds has me out in front of a room, and the other world is me sitting there saying, I don't want to be out in the front of the room, I like being up the back. What I needed that space and time for was decide to figure out whether because you know when people tell you something that doesn't quite feel congruent, like people saying, Oh, you're you're so good, you should do this. But when it when you're not feeling that, I was questioning within myself, is it just me being afraid to do it? Or is it me genuinely that that is not what I want for me?
SPEAKER_01And I think this is an important discussion because it my our intention in sharing what's going on, what's been going on for you and I is to help others, I think, when have permission that when they come to a decision in their business, or if something's feeling out of alignment, and I know we say that a lot, but what does it mean? To me, out of alignment means that you're procrastinating on something, you're not feeling fully enthusiastic about it, you have you haven't got all cylinders rearing ready to go, you're not like, yep, this is awesome, let's go, let's do it. And I've noticed with you, Sam, for at least six months resistance around leading workshops and recruiting for workshops. And and Bali was sort of the the thing that brought it home to us that that's not actually what you enjoy doing. And then in Bali we did the human design stuff as well. And for those that aren't familiar with that, it's you know, it's it's based on your astrology and many other archetypes, and it's got the cabola and the i ching mixed in. It's a whole mixture of ancient philosophies, but it tells you how you're wired to show up best or how you're wired, how you like to operate in the world. Is that how you would describe it?
SPEAKER_02Like your natural yes, yes. And I I am a huge fan of human design simply because it doesn't require the person to answer questions. And and I know that that there are some brilliant tests that you can do that assess your personality. Yeah, my fear in those is that there would be a certain number of people, and my I include myself in that, who fall into the bad habit of answering those questions the way you think you should, or the way you have trained yourself to respond. Yeah, and that isn't necessarily genuinely coming from deep within you because we are highly trained as human beings. We are trained from a very early age, what is socially acceptable, how to behave, how we're supposed to show up, and that's influenced from you know peers and parents and all the people around us. What I love about human design is that it takes you back to the source of your birth, in which you have no influence and there is no out external influence on that.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And and yet there is because the the the timing of your birth astrologically, you know, the the alignment of the planets and so on is what the human design incorporates all of that, right?
SPEAKER_02So yes, what I mean is no human influence.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, it's true, it's purely this is when you were born, this is therefore the blueprint. Uh, and it requires a belief in astrology and you know the those sort of sciences, is it do we call it that?
SPEAKER_02Uh or yes, I think I think we can we can call it that.
SPEAKER_01I think and there's so much in astrology that people get so much perspective on insight and comfort from that you have to think there's got to be something truthful in there, doesn't it? And I think we we often know the truth when we feel it. It either, like you said, it either feels congruent or it doesn't. And so, yeah, the um yeah, we could go down a big rabbit hole with human design that I'm so tempted to do, but for the bet purposes of this, because I found out that my birthday was actually two hours before I thought it was, and it has changed what this your human design results, it's changed not the not the predominant one, but some of the nuanced factors in it and channels and yes, and my rising sun now is not Leo, which never really felt quite right. It's it's actually cancer, which is emotions and water and soft and gooey on the inside, needing strong boundaries on the outside, you know what I mean? I was like, that is yes.
SPEAKER_02That's our case. That's right. That's what we love about you. It and but how interesting is it that you in deep inside you intrinsically knew that something was a little bit off in there?
SPEAKER_01Yes, which is why I kept asking my parents, and finally my dad got to the bottom of it and and he gave me yes, he said, and he was adamant, it's it was midday because of this, this, and this. And and whereas my mum had been way off, she thought it was for two or four o'clock in the afternoon. So, and interestingly, with the alignment of the planets, that does make a difference. It does make some people skeptical, but again, it comes back to you know, it's not just astrology, but there is the Kabbalah mixed in there, and some of these other ancient philosophies that believed in the positioning of the planets at the at the time. And if if if cultural condition traditions carry this on for thousands of thousands of years, to me, it's there must be something in there that's supporting humanity. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but also if you think about the environment, you know, that the moment that we're born, there is a specific energy that comes from all of these things being lined up. And you know, as you I remember the last Bali retreat when you were talking about vibration and you were talking about how they influence emotion and everything, all of these things impact you from the moment you're born.
SPEAKER_03That's right.
SPEAKER_02So I I don't think that we can fui all of these ancient things altogether. I think that's right.
SPEAKER_01They are energy as you know, as science is now discovering, we are energetic beings and we are influenced by frequencies, and yeah, emotions are frequencies, they're like the alignment of the planets are a frequency, and everything is exerting sort of yeah, this influence on us, and it does impact how we develop, mature, everything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that and that's why, you know, it's interesting the conversations I have with my kids, and when I point out to them, you know, two people in exactly the same situation, sitting in front of exactly the same person, will feel differently about what's going on, will hear the words differently that are spoken by the exactly the same person, and everyone's experience is so individual. Yes, yes, um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, we've got the nature versus nurture as well. Then you've got your nurturing environment, which has an equally you know significant effect. Yeah, but I think what the human design does, it's how you're naturally wired to thrive. Yeah, and in your case, it was you are a generator, which means you're you are designed to respond, not initiate. Is that correct? Essentially, yes. Yeah. And to me, like observing you over the years, so we we've been running this podcast for three and uh a bit years now, and we are now officially into season three, which is very exciting. But over the probably five, six years I've known you, it's becoming clearer for me now that you have always been someone that prefers to sit behind the scenes and do the research and the fact-finding and the tinkering and the problem solving, and then creating things that help other people solve those problems. You don't, even though you've tried and been very good at coaching and teaching people, it's not where you personally draw energy from, or it's not where you get energized from.
SPEAKER_02No, and and I did share with you, like you know, when we were talking last week, and I did share with you that when I'm in the position of coaching and teaching, I never have a sense of satisfaction that I've done, I I've presented well or I've achieved well for the people that are sitting in front of me, which is a very big problem if that's what you're gonna do, to feel constantly satisfied with what you've just done. Yeah. So that that's why I'm sitting here and I'm like, why am I doing it? Why am I putting myself in these situations when I I do not feel like I do it well?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And even though people say to you, but you do do it so well, if you don't, and the resistance to me has been the key to for I think the resistance to you wanting to get up and be in front of the root and uh room and lead a group, or and and I've just noticed your lack of, and this is not a criticism, by the way, this is observing for the sake of trying to find our zone of genius, right? This is your lack of enthusiasm in teaching. Like in Bali, there was that moment where someone was you know wanting your help and you sort of got frustrated, and you're like, Well, it's in the workbook, which it was in the workbook, but when you're coaching teaching, as we you and I know, people need to be handheld and they need to be shown, and that's not the bit that lights you up. To me, the bit that lights you up is the part where you've discovered all these great things, you put it in the workbook, and then it's up to people whether they choose to read that and digest it properly or not, you know. But you've done your work, you figured it out, you've solved a problem, and now you're on to the next thing. So for you having to go back and dredge through all that and re-explain and and read, that's not it energizing for you. It's draining and it's frustrating. Yes.
SPEAKER_02I actually I had a I had a moment of realization, and it were I was I I'm in one of James Swedmore's Facebook groups. He asked a question, and I normally do not, I'm very much the person that I I'm the lurker. I don't respond on social media. But I don't know why, I don't know what possessed me this one time that I responded, and James answered me and pointed out to me in no uncertain terms, that it is not my job to take responsibility for the outcomes of people. Because I was talking about coaching. And it was a really it was a really pivotal moment because I thought that that's why I shouldn't be doing it, because I'm getting more attached to the person's outcome than the person does. When they don't do the thing, it affects me greatly. I can't keep putting myself in those positions. And when people don't understand what I'm trying to explain, not their fault, but it's about how I feel about the result. Yeah. Yeah. So that is making me not feel good. If I don't get people where I think they should go, there's a lot of blame on me. Yeah. And James rightly pointed out, I don't have the right to take ownership of other people's actions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Which is a good way of putting it, to say you you should care less about what other people do. But it's hard if you if you choose to take on that responsibility as a coach or teacher. Yes. Yeah. Whereas I think what we figured out for you, Sam, is that your role is more as a consultant where you can go in and problem solve. So say a business has a bottleneck or they have a systems problem, you can go in, figure out what the problem is, fix it up, and walk off to the next challenge. And meanwhile, that business is very happy because the the bottleneck has been debottlenecked.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah. And I and I do, and I think well, people will tell you like I get too involved and it's not good. So I've had to figure out a way to work where where I'm withdrawn from the process a lot sooner before I can get so attached that I get extremely frustrated. So the it's a big it's a big gap between what you know logically and how you feel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but the feelings are the essential guidance around what you could should be spending your time on, because as you and I have discovered, when you're not in full alignment, when you're not in flow, it just and there's resistance there, it's like swimming upstream, isn't it? And and whereas I think what we've realized is to give each other permission to find the things, the the things that we love doing, and stop swimming upstream, turn the little raft around and let the river carry us downstream by lining up with what we truly love doing. And it was interesting that the conversation you and I had about this whole time you've been talking about wanting to implement these systems in your family business, the PSM automotive maintenance spray booth that you run with your husband. And you know, there's always ongoing challenges in that business. It makes really good money, but you've got staffing issues, and there's and there's always and your husband, as we've touched on on many episodes, has challenges like so many business owners, with letting go of control and trusting other people to take the reins. And and he's been disappointed many times by incompetent people, which only reinforces that whole you know, yeah cycle. So, and then but your goal has been right, I need to get the systems and the finances sorted in that business so that he has more time freedom and then I can focus on my thing. But I think now you've realized that yeah, the number one way you can support him to have more time, you and him to have more time freedom is that you play a bigger role in in making that all work well. Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. But again, even today, Kate, I'm sitting here thinking, am I now getting too involved? Am I doing the same thing again where I get too involved and then I'll become too frustrated with the outcome? Difference being that, you know, this is also my business. So yeah. It's not somebody else's that's responsible for the outcome.
SPEAKER_01No, but I think sometimes we need to take the pressure off ourselves. So, yeah, that that's sort of a separate challenge you've got within that business is of doing enough so that you feel like the problems are being solved and things are moving forward without getting too frustrated at the lack of progress that could be achieved. But finding that happy balance where you're making slow but steady progress. And yes, there's the frustrations, but they're manageable. But then taking that pressure off you on the side of having to be part of this collaboration and do all you know all this stuff that you are feeling a lot of resistance towards. So just to stop waffling for a while, I suppose, for the audience, what are we trying to say? Is we are not moving ahead with the engine room. And while so many people, since I've said that just to a few people, they've said, Oh, but it was such a great concept. And it was a great concept, you know, you and I showing up every two weeks to create space for owners to. Work on their business, not in it, to identify what they need to do, whether it be creating content or setting up systems, and then you and I there to guide them through it or just create that container, that space for them to do it. Because we know that one of the biggest challenges people have is finding time, making time to work on the business. Yes. However, yeah, it wasn't flowing with for whatever reason, and then you had the realization actually, I don't want to be coaching and teaching people how to do this stuff.
SPEAKER_02No, it it sounds really weird, Kate, but I when I think about the way you and I work together, I always see you in that leadership role in the front. And then we've got all the people in the middle. I see myself as the person at the back, making sure that there's no one left behind, people are still moving along following the leader. I'm not up the front leading everyone, I'm at the back making sure that everyone's moving along and not straying from the trail of where the leader is taking them.
SPEAKER_01Which could still work in a collaborative sense if I'm taking the lead and you're bringing up the rear. But I think the and you know, making sure everyone gets what they need. But the the blocker for you and the resistance for you, I think, was around having to make sure everyone's okay and being the mother hen, sort of thing, making sure everyone gets what you need. And I think Barley highlighted to you that's not where you get inspiration and energy from. You, I think, and what we've decided does work. You know, we're not throwing out the baby with the bath water, just in case people were worried about that. We're not announcing the end of the podcast. No, in fact, we've decided that we love doing this podcast because it's something we have in our diary every week where we share the latest things we're learning, the latest you know, things we're discovering and finding out, and new insights in small business that hopefully will help someone else. But there's no requirement for you or I to make them implement that information or to have any ownership or responsibility over whether they choose to use that information. So for you, it removes that whole need to get an outcome for people. Whereas, so if we just show up, share what we know, and and people get value from it, that's a really good thing. We love doing it, it's easy. We've got the systems set up now to thanks to AI and Sam's tinkering, making sure those processes all flow. We can get like how long does it take you now to get an episode up on oh gosh, not long because I've I've invested the time.
SPEAKER_02This is what people don't do. I've invested the time to get the AI to do things properly. Yeah. Because rarely do they work out well the first time. So it had I have invested and it's been hours of sitting here, but now everything is worked out, yeah. It'll it's all set up and it does what it needs to do. And it's it's not a lot of time at all. Yeah, which is amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so But that's my happy place, Kate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what's going on.
SPEAKER_02Sitting there trying to figure out how things work and how to make it work.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and that's what gives you the satisfaction, and then the satisfaction of it actually working and it saving time and having that spaciousness left because you've got stuff's being done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that is an example, I suppose, of where you do get energy, you love tinkering, problem solving, figuring something out, and then moving on to the next thing. And so this collaboration of the podcast fit is a good fit for both you and I, because we both love sharing what we know and hopefully inspiring others and helping them on their journey. And then so we thought, what can we keep continue to do together? Because our goal at the beginning of this year was to monetize this podcast. We've been running it for three years, yeah. And it's just been a little a nice little hobby that we invest a little bit in time and money to make it a really good resource for people. But so then we thought, well, how do we monetize? And that's when we started the workshop series, which we started this year. And we ran three really good workshops. The two, and it's been really great for anyone who's feeling like a failure in business, like you had an idea and you gave it a good crack and it didn't work out the way you wanted. That's just business, and it's there's no, you know, it's the old cliche, there's no feedback, no failure, only feedback. That's right. And it's also the Matt Church philosophy of anything you try, expect that 50% of what you try is going to fail. And but the key thing is that you learn from that. And so, what you and I learned in running workshops for the the wheel, the thriving business wheel, which has the four quadrants, we learned by far that people are most interested, and the biggest pain points are in revenue generation and in AI. And actually, they don't care about the rest of this for our target market, which is small business owners wanting to thrive. It's it is about the revenue generation and the systems and the profit, that's all very important. But you don't have any of that to manage unless you've got a good amount of revenue coming in. So we got really, really good traction in the first workshop, which was revenue generation, then in the second workshop around AI, also lots of interest. And then we started moving to profit and systems, and it dropped off. And then the final one on leadership, virtually zero interest in that. So it highlighted to me the pain where we need to focus our efforts together to help small businesses. And so, out of that, we've decided something really valuable we can do with the podcast is give people again the means to work their way through the thriving business wheel with AI prompts, because that has been an amazing experiment that you you unintentionally pulled out of the hat, Sam, that you thought, oh, businesses might, you know, be what they need is really good prompts to do this work. And you created those eight prompts that have now that now form the the AI employee setup workbook, which has been a complete game changer for me, for my clients, and for most people that we know. And that's basically saying, here you go, go try apply this in your business, and you're gonna get a lot of a lot of value out of that. And so we thought, well, let's do that, but do it for the entire wheel, so that people have a resource they can go to that basically gives them the full roadmap of building a business. And here's all the prompts that you could use yourself in your own time, working with AI to which will interview you and help you figure out in your own time and in your own way what you need to be doing to master this piece of the business building journey.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So even that workbook, and and this is why the work the workshops was so good, because like you said, A it gave us feedback on on where people's particular areas of interest were out of the wheel, because we know all parts are important, yeah. But where our audience is right now is in the in the first half of the wheel, really. Yeah, they haven't hit the second half of the wheel. Yeah, but hosting those workshops, that's where that AI workbook came from. It was me being able to sit in the room and watch, like because this is what I love to. It's not that I don't want to be in the room, I don't want to leave the room. Yeah, but having the ability to sit in the room and observe and pick up what was being spoken about and struggles of people having, not to, you know, solve the problem in the room, but that's what I picked up and took and built the workbook from.
SPEAKER_01Right. You you heard people struggling with how do I do that. And you said, well, they need a really good prompt to figure that out. So I'll design the prompt and I'll get and and I mean, even we had Peter on our retreat, who's been in business 21 years, he worked his way through the prompts and he said, I've never done this deeper soul search around, and for him it was so timely because he hasn't done the big visioning, he's been head down, bum up, running his business and with 10 staff. But for him, it was a great, you know, moment to pause and reflect and and pivot and say, where am I now and where am I going next? And and these prompts allowed him to do it next to the pool with a beer in his hand, being interviewed by AI, thanks to your prompts, and him being able to work through it on his in it in his own time at his own pace. And it took him four hours just to work through one because he was at that time where he really needed to reflect and he couldn't reflect. You know, these things sometimes you need to split it up. He did some one day and a bit the next day, and yeah, so they are powerful, and yeah, so I yeah, you're absolutely right. I think for you, that was market research, wasn't it? These workshops, you're sitting in a room of people talking about their pain points, what they want, what they need, what they're frustrated by, and then you saying, Oh, I know how I can solve that. Let's just develop these these eight prompts. And yeah, the first four are all about the business identity, and then the next four are about setting up skills so that you can automate a lot of this stuff, which it does take that time investment. But now we're at the point where we're like, okay, well, we think we know what's going to really serve you well. So we're gonna create this resource and we're gonna charge money for it because it's incredibly powerful.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01And whether or not you choose to buy it is your is, you know, it's up to you, and whether or not you choose to use it and imply it is also up to you. But we will create it and put it there and let you know how amazing it is and and get others to tell us, you know. We've had so much positive feedback about it. So for you and I, that's a great way we can still serve and support people without the need to be responsible for coaching and teaching on an ongoing basis.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well a lot of this conversation's been around around my realizations. Kate, what is it that lights you up the most? Because I because I don't want to lead, I therefore am very happy to let you do that, as in I I because I don't want to. So I'm like, oh, Kate's really good at it, she can do it. Does it light you up the way it should? Because I kind of feel like I don't I don't give you a choice in it. I sit back and look and I'm like, oh Kate, because you're you you're wonderful. But how do you feel about it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I you know, it does light me up. I do love teaching. The coaching part, uh yeah, I do enjoy it, and like you, I do feel responsible for people getting the outcomes, and I do get satisfaction from working with them and seeing them make progress. But I think a realization for me has been that leading groups is where I I feel more energized and inspired than private coaching. And I just had an example of that yesterday in a room with the public sector teaching 15 adults about data management in the new age, and and and I love the group dynamics, I love figuring out the pockets of personalities and getting people to interact. So I love all that sort of interpersonal stuff in a room. And yeah, a lot of it's all the EQ stuff which I love, you know, just figuring out how to engage disengaged people or how to ask the right questions to bring out some energy and enthusiasm. So, because they were getting quite stuck in in on a negative problem-solving point at one point. And I just said, right, let's just break it up, let's go around the room and tell me one thing you love about your job. And they really struggled at first because they were so stuck in, you know, oh, everything's hard and difficult. And and then, and then when they actually had to think about what do you love about your job, then it's you could see that really struggle. And then, but sometimes it is a mindset shift, you know. You're obviously all working at this place because you you you know, you must like something about it. And then they all started talking about what one person started and that led other person, another person to think about, and then all of a sudden the energy in the room elevated and they got back to sort of a positive constructive space. So I do love leading groups and teaching groups. I think the out of the wheel and the workshops we've done, it definitely highlighted to me that my happy place is the marketing and the revenue generation and the self-awareness and the EQ leadership piece. I'm so grateful for the prompts that you've developed because they help me do my work more easily and they help my clients do what they need to do more easily. The systems part I've realized is not my lane. I can do it for myself, but I don't like figuring that out for other people and I don't find it interesting. So and I do, yeah, and so we all, you know, we got to the point where I was sending you clients because I'm like, you know, these people need systems and AI help, and there was a lot of resistance there from you too. But I think we've worked through what that was was you thinking I have to teach I have to coach these people. But in actual fact, it was for you, it was a mindset reframe around no, they actually need help figuring out what systems are going to work best for them and you solve that problem for them, then they can go off and fix it. And that made it more palatable for you, didn't it? Because that turns into consulting, not coaching.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, isn't it funny how the labels can really, you know, or or words can can frame things in your imagination.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And like and it can be vastly different from what the reality is, but the choice of words you use around, you know, and what and what you label yourself as is very much yeah, it's if the hat doesn't fit, yeah, you've got to call it put on a different hat.
SPEAKER_01Or yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And for you it's just calling it consulting takes the sort of heaviness out of it because basically you're being hired to assess a problem, find a solution for the problem, and move on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And but have nothing to do with the implementation of it. You've got to go and do this now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Which is fine because once they know what to do, then they can figure out, you know, the next bit. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's been this year has been an exercise in learning for both of us. Yeah, what we do really love doing and what we don't love doing. And for me, writing is always in the background. We're putting out a new book in in a month or so. It's with the final formatter, it's doing the book cover design at the moment. So that's yeah, that's coming, and that's on emotional intelligence because that's always been a you know, pet project, pet passion project of mine. So that's a lovely collaboration I'm doing. So yeah, it's highlighted to me that marketing is where my strengths are, the revenue generation side, whether it's getting a good business model or offer and all the marketing that goes around that. So it's I don't like sales, and again, it's labels. For me, if you do marketing really well, it takes away the need to sell because you're just clearly you're just clearly demonstrating the value in something. Yes. And if if that's what that person needs at the time, then they will take action to buy that thing. But again, it's labels and you know, language, and but I do love, and uh it takes me back to my engineering days in the business development roles I had. It's all marketing, it's all articulating the value of something, it's building a case for something, it's helping people see the different angles of something and it's communication, is as I think you've said before, marketing is communicating. It's yeah, it's been clear, you know, and yesterday in the public sector workshop was great because they had some examples of where someone has tried to present a piece of data, but using very vague, ambiguous, and fluffy language, which you know is quite often associated with politicians and so on, if they're trying to spin something.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so we were trying to help them understand that how do you just communicate this piece of information without any opinion, without any spin, just purely as a piece of presenting a fact, a data, a piece of data. And so helping them just communicate in basic clear language without any interpretation and giving them the skills to do that without, and you know, and then they'd say, Oh, but the politician will then use that and spin it. So that's okay, that that you don't need to worry about that bit, because as long as you've presented the data clean, you know, then yeah, so it's and it's all communication that so marketing to me is just it's like developing a relationship, which is what I used to do back in engineering when we would tender for projects. We'd meet the client, then we'd understand their pain points, then we'd put together a whole business case and we'd run workshops to extract, you know, what was really going on behind the scenes so that we could pitch our tender to be exactly meeting what they need, you know, and and the right price because we do the research. So you it's yeah, it made me realize that I've been doing that my whole career, and that's why I probably love it so much. Now it's just translating to a different space. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I do. I do. And as you're telling that story, I'm thinking how you know my experience in in previous careers has been walking to a space and I'm sitting there asking a million questions to understand how this has all got to work, and then I've got to figure out how to put those pieces together and what pieces need to go, what new pieces. So I'm figuring out this the whole system.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So that you can then figure out solution. Yeah. Solve the problem and work. Yeah. And so that's probably a really relevant point as well for anyone who's you know, just moved pivoted into small business, or and you've had a whole career and you've got imposter syndrome going on, or because I did for years thinking, how can I be calling myself a marketer? But it's been it's given me a lot of comfort thinking, well, my whole PhD was kind of a marketing exercise because you, you know, you've you you've got to pitch your idea. I had to get people to sponsor me, I had you know, they had to pay for my research, then we had to find something that was significant enough that we could then get ongoing funding. Like all of it is a process of finding the value in something and communicating it to go to go further, if you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_02So and see, I didn't have to do any of that. I had to I had to create relationships with stakeholders, but my role was not dependent on achieving sales targets or anything like that. It was like I need to engage stakeholders so that the whole process runs smoothly. Yes, and to achieve a specific goal. But there was nothing, you know, we had to meet budgets and things like that. But I was not responsible for hitting sales targets or, you know, like pulling in customers or anything like that.
SPEAKER_01Funding or yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So that's probably why I'm like, I don't, yeah, I don't want to do that stuff either.
SPEAKER_01No, and yeah, so I guess when you're in business at this later stage in life, you know, both of you and I are post 50. And it's about finding the continuity in the threads of the things that we have been doing all along and and noticing that, yeah, while we might be doing labeling at something different now, we have been working on homing those skills over the years in different ways. And yeah, giving yourself some kudos and credit for the journey that's brought you to this place. And I guess the main point in us wanting to share this today, aside from wanting to reconnect with the audience, because we realise it has been a whole month since we've shown up and a lot's been going on. We did have Bali, but then we've also both you and I came back and felt unwell for for almost a week. And that to me was a sign that as much as Bali was beautiful, it it didn't energize us both in the way that we'd hoped.
SPEAKER_02No, it was it was a beautiful stopping point. Yeah, to say, hang on, stop for a minute and think. Yeah, that was the best thing about Bali. It was stop and think, have a look around. And and just yeah, that then just that minute to breathe it, breathe in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and on the way home, I was feeling anxious because I was thinking, we've got to run, we've got to launch this engine room, and I'm just not feeling it. And I know Sam's not feeling it, and she's just not she's not in this, and you know, thinking, oh my god, what are we gonna do? And um yeah, because we hadn't really articulated it at that point. You were feeling it, I was feeling it, but it wasn't until we both got sick where we were like, okay, maybe we need to reassess what we're doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But what we are going to do, have we even said that have we have we shared the name yet? No. Well, no, we haven't. Are we are you going to do that today? Should we? I am energized about getting this out in the world. And I'm not saying that's going to happen in the next week, but um, definitely this is definitely what's coming, and and we do feel good about this.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, well, maybe we share it in the in in in the name of accountability for us actually getting it up and live. Yes. And if if our audience has managed to listen through to this far ahead, they deserve to be rewarded with. So, yes, we we we have the AI setup workbook, which is the taster, that will then lead into the business launch pad, which is the thriving business wheel with the AI prompts in each segment to help people work through in their own time with AI, what they need to do in that segment of the wheel to get their get everything moving and happening.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna sorry. I don't I saw something move out. So I told this story earlier with you, Kate, about the huntsman that I had on my shop yesterday that was touching my face. That whole experience. I just saw something out of the corner of my eye, and I'm a little bit skittish in my office today, but it was a rabbit. A rabbit, I just had a rabbit on my teeth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you've got PTSD from the huntsman that landed on your shoulder yesterday.
SPEAKER_02What I'm really excited about with the business launch pad is I get to I get to have fun, you know, creating tools and things like that. Which is your happy space.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I get to do all the marketing around.
SPEAKER_02You do, you do, and you get and and also like I feel like I do my bit and create my tools and everything, but because of the teacher in you, you know how to put it all together and structure it in a way that's going to be really meaningful for people. Yeah. Whereas I'll just be like, here's the stack. Yeah. Work your way through it.
SPEAKER_01Here's the prompts. I'm like, mmm, I might need some instructions or some some more context.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So yes, I put on the couple of pages of intros some pictures at the front to help people understand how this all works. And then it's like, right, and here's the brilliant things that Sam's designed for you to go and use. And yeah, so we do work really well together in that front, and we both are in our happy space, then, you know, me doing the teaching, marketing, you doing the nuts and bolts of the problem solving, we pull it together, and then there's something really useful that people can use and get a lot of value from.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's where it's at. We are pulling the pin on the engine room as much as we loved the concept, and it is a beautiful thing that you the concept there was we get below the deck and figure out what's not working in the engine of the of the of the ship and then um help you fix it and get moving. With with your navy background and my engineering background, it it it was a very cool idea.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, and maybe it's going to come to life in a slightly different form at some point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Who knows?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, who knows? Yeah. And it's not, it's just being shelved for now until the right path is revealed. And then in the meantime, we'll get the business launch pad happening. And that will be live on the thrivingbusiness.com, sorry, thrivingbusinesspodcast.com website.
SPEAKER_03It will.
SPEAKER_01Where you can get both the workbook for a low price. I can't I don't know if we've decided on we've been offering it for free.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01But I think you're working on a revision to that to make it version two, and I split the workbook into two parts.
SPEAKER_02The inner part and the outer part.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah, so that's coming. And and then, yeah, we're not sure what the price tag for the launch pad either, but it'll be something like a couple of hundred dollars to have all the prompts for your entire business. Which, yeah, we shall be making available hopefully before definitely before the end of this year. That's that's the promise.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Cause I think uh I think we did discuss at some point that we didn't necessarily feel like we had to have the whole thing done. We could just release each part of the wheel as as we'd worked on it.
SPEAKER_01Yes, we shall work through the mechanics of that. Not sure how. Who knows? Watch this space. Yeah, watch this space, but so you don't miss out. Exactly. And we hope you've found this uh episode helpful. I think sometimes in business we tr we it's tempting to cover something up or to pretend that you know we're we're often afraid to admit changes or mistakes, not mistakes, but where things haven't worked potentially or where an idea hasn't flowed, or but I believe sharing openly and honestly gives other people permission to say, oh, I'm really feeling a lot of resistance to this. I don't think, you know, that is a clear sign that it's either not the right time or it's not the right activity to be working on. And if but, you know, like you and I through this discussion, we get excited about the workbook and the and the launch pad because that feels easy and there's no strings attached, and then we know it's valuable and it's fun. We have fun doing creating that thing, and so that's the key. Money flows when the energy is alive, you know, and definitely, and we've definitely both experienced money does not flow when your heart's just really not in it.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we hope this has helped you all have a think about your own human design, your own natural wiring and what what you love doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because what you're doing because you you just because you're good at it doesn't mean that you have to love it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, doesn't mean that it energizes you or uplifts you.
SPEAKER_02Just means maybe you just well practiced at something that you haven't enjoyed doing for a very long time.
SPEAKER_01But not allowed yourself to realize, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so question the labels you've given yourselves and and whether or not they're the right ones and and what is the actual place where you thrive. And if you have any questions, come reach out. We'd be happy to guide you, you know, happy to share whatever wisdom we can give. Guide you in the right direction. So we shall be back again. We have uh some guests lined up fairly soon, so we'll aim to get all of those locked in and and out. We'll get back into our regular publishing schedule. That's the plan. That is, yes. Alrighty. Well, it's lovely to be back with you all. We look forward to seeing you again very soon. Thanks so much, and bye for now. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_00Want help with your business? Join Kate and Sam in the engine room, the place where business owners go to get things done. Your first session is free. Head to thrivingbusinesspodcast.com to claim your spot. Thanks for listening to the Thriving Business Podcast.
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