The Coach Trap: Why Copying Someone Else's Playbook Isn't Working for Your Business

You see someone crush it with a group program, a membership or a $37 product, and you think that's what you should be doing too. We've both fallen into that trap.

In this episode, Kate and I talk about why we pulled the pin on The Engine Room, our group program, after coming home from Bali completely wiped out. There was nothing wrong with the idea. We just didn't want to deliver it.

We talk about:

• Why someone else's success comes from their skills, personality and journey, not yours
• How to use your energy to tell whether a business model's right for you
• Group coaching vs online courses, and what we've chosen instead
• Why coaching gets poor results when the foundation work hasn't been done first
• Getting off the hamster wheel long enough to get clear on what you actually want

If you're a coach, consultant or expert trying to work out which business model suits you, this one's for you.

Grab our free AI workbook at thrivingbusinesspodcast.com while it's still free.

Thriving Business Podcast 🌐Website:   https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ 

Thriving Business Launchpad 🌐Website:  https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/thriving-business-launchpad

Connect with Your Hosts:

Kate De Jong, PhD | Inspired Business 

🌐 Website: https://katedejong.com/ 

📱 Instagram: @katedejong.inspiredbusiness 

✉️ Email: kate@katedejong.com

Sam Morris | The O8 

🌐 Website: https://www.theo8.com/ 

📱 Instagram: @the_o8crew 

✉️ Email: sam@theo8.com

GET THE AI SETUP WORKBOOK

🌐 https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ai-setup-workbook

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:30

Hello, hello everyone. Welcome back to the Thriving Business Podcast. I'm Kate De Yong here in Perth, and my, as always, wonderful podcast co-host, Sam Morris, is in Melbourne today. Hi, Sam. Hello, Kate. Here we are again. It's been a couple of weeks since we published our last episode, which was about full disclosure. Yes. Yes, it was. Where we disclosed what the sort of thoughts and revelations, I think, that came out of our time in Bali together. Because before Bali, we had been preparing to launch the Engine Room. Yes. Which was a group program designed to help business owners have 90 minutes blocked in their calendar every two weeks to work on their business, whatever that may be. So, because we thought we were thinking the big pain point there is that people struggle to find time to work on their business, not in it. And we would thereby create this container where people could come along, work on their business and get help from us along the way, whether it be with AI or marketing, whatever it is that they're needing at the time. So it would be it would have been a group coaching program, but we decided to pull the pin on that. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yes, we did.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Which was the full disclosure in the last episode, because we had done a very soft launch of that, but then we never really got it going because you and I just weren't feeling the inspiration behind it.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah. Yeah. It isn't it interesting. I'm feeling like the energy uh is shifted. And oh, I don't know. We we did the retreat and then we both came back so depleted from that. And yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

It's the opposite of the intention. You're meant to come away from those retreats feeling energized and inspired.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yes, but that's for the participants. It's not for the retreat hosts, is it?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah. Ideal ideally, you'd you'd as a host, you'd ideally not come back feeling depleted though, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yes, yeah. And I think that's what's leading us to today's episode is is falling into this trap of thinking that you have to do things the way other people have done them. And just because you see someone do something and be very successful at it, we're all guilty of this at some point in some way, shape, or form, where you emulate what they do, hoping to emulate the success that they've had. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah. And I think today's episode is specifically for coaches and therapists and people that are either solopreneurs or they have a field of expertise, whether it be, you know, you and I are both business coaches or automation. You're an automation specialist. I'm more a marketing startup co you know, specialist. We try not to use the word coach because it's so overrated and yeah, but basically, we have specific areas of expertise that we love helping people in and where they get massive value. So we're thinking of other people in that space. So this conversation today is probably not so relevant for people who have a brick and mortar business or a standard sort of consult, you know, business service like accounting or bookkeeping or IT. We're talking about people like you and I who are out on their own offering their services as a coach or consultant. And how we do fall into the trap of thinking there's a certain way that coaches have to operate in order to be profitable or earn a lot of money. And we see on Facebook all the time and Instagram examples of people selling their program, which is the magic bullet to I've made tons of money, you know, selling this thing and making, you know, I just looked up one of the coaches and she made $162,000 of sales from one $37 product, you know, and so and so you think, right, I've got to do that. And and I think the point you and I want to make is following someone else's playbook doesn't always work for you. There's not a one size fits all.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

No, we seem to forget that one person's success is precursored by a very specific journey with you know, by a very specific personality type with specific skills and experiences behind it. And when we try to do the same thing, we are not coming from the same place. It's impossible. We're all unique. So rather than following ourselves, we've got to stop following other people.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah. And having said that, there are certain things that are tried and tested and proven and do work. So it's a it's a it's finding that balance, isn't it? So I guess for you and I, the big question recently has been do we run group programs or do we leverage our expertise in a different way? And and the big insight I think we had from Bali was that you and I don't draw inspiration necessarily from so-called coaching people through holding their hand. We get more inspiration from developing some really cool tools and systems and frameworks for people to follow and letting them have access to those and getting massive value from that. So, as an example, many of you listening would have tried our AI employee setup workbook that Sam developed and where she engineered the prompts for um uncovering your business identity and then setting up the different foundations for AI employees. And it was a huge success because people were able to take that thing away, work on it in their own time, and get massive value from it. And some people would spend four hours on one prompt, but loved the new clarity and insight they got from that because basically these prompts are acting as little coaches, right? They're coaching you through a process to get the clarity you need. And so what we found from the retreat is we love giving people that resource to get the clarity they need. We don't necessarily love the holding the hand bit.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yeah, that's right. I think we we both come from the same place where we want to see results, yes, and and I I'll speak to for myself here, Kate, where I kind of want to push for the results to be on my timeline, which doesn't necessarily work out for the client. But I I I want things to happen for them. And the problem with that is that they've got their own stuff that gets in the way. So by empowering them with AI tools that can push them through that so that you know when they come back, it's like, yep, yep, this is all done. Yeah. And I didn't have to do the middle bit of like, come on, yeah, coaching them through that, which doesn't restrain your energy.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah. And so I think for us it was this comes back to we talked about this in the previous episode around not doing what you think you should do, but where you actually things you do, the things you actually really enjoy doing and where you feel inspired doing it. And you can tell that quite easily from the sense of energy you feel around it, whether something feels heavy and you're procrastinating a lot, that's probably a clear sign that you don't really enjoy that thing and it's not something you should focus on. Yeah. And then the old the opposite is also true. And the the ultimate end goal where we all want to get to in business is to have a system that works for us, that repeatedly and reproducibly brings clients in, brings the revenue in, and we have some sort of predictability and really good revenue stream that supports the lifestyle and gives us all the good things like financial freedom and so on. That's where we all want to get to, is to have that repeatable business model that works. Where you and I have been doing this for a long time now, and we've tried lots of different models and lots of different approaches, and sometimes I beat myself up thinking I should have figured this out a lot, you know, a long time ago. But we evolve and we grow and we learn new things, and we're at the point now where I think you and I have pretty clear insight on what the path is for us that feels light and inspiring and joyful and lucrative from a revenue perspective, both collectively together and individually as separate businesses. So I think this I'm hoping this conversation as we unpack this a bit will help other coaches in this position where then potentially not entirely sure about what is the business model that I focus on. Because you know the saying where they say focus on doing one thing and do it really, really well.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

And so all of us want that so-called funnel. I don't like calling it that, but that customer journey that we take people on that works and gets value for the for the client and for us, and we make good money from it, and the client gets great results. So it's been a bit of a journey for you and I figuring out what that is, but I think we can share what we're clear about now.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah, yeah. And I think too, the problem is that when we don't have answers for ourselves, we do look to external sources for those answers. And that's part of the problem. And and like you're saying, you and I have been through a plethora of different ideas and business models and all the rest of it. But isn't that kind of exciting? Isn't that part of what we're supposed to do? And isn't that how we've grown and learned to the point where this is where we're at today?

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Yeah, absolutely. And you kind of have to go through that. I rarely find anyone at a client that actually nails the business model on the first go.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

No. No. And you know what? Back in the early days when I was doing a lot of private work, the amount of people that had already started a business and their hearts sat somewhere else entirely, but they had started the business that they thought they should start because they thought this this will make money. Yeah. And it wasn't. Wonder why. Yeah, because your heart's not in it. And you're not putting lines behind it.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Yeah. So let's share then, in the hopes that this will, you know, help others, the difference between you and I sort of fell into the trap of thinking we've got to do a group program because that's how you make good money as coaches.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Until we both figured out we were procrastinating, it wasn't feeling good, and then we ended up doing an amazing sales page and everything, doing a setting up a you know, whole pre-launch, but our hearts were just not in it. And so we pulled the pin.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yeah, absolutely nothing wrong with the concept, the design, any of that. No, the only part that was wrong with it was We weren't feeling it. I didn't want to deliver it.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Which is kind of a big problem.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

If you're gonna dread doing that thing, there is really no, yeah, you've got it that you've got to be brutal and just on brutally honest with yourself and pull the pin. Yeah. So yeah, that was our full disclosure. We have pulled the pin on that idea. So what are we doing, Sam? Let's share what does feel aligned and exciting and inspired.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

I'm I'm so excited about this, Kate. And you know, and we we did quite a bit of work on this before we we started the episode today. But the thriving business launch pad. It's it's going to be amazing. I can see it now because yeah, because we've we've developed this with years and years of clients, of trial and error with our own businesses. And the fact that I think is very exciting, is which makes this program so current and relevant for businesses today and moving into the future is the way we're incorporating the use of AI in this. And I know AI is a very, very controversial topic, particularly around the you know, the data breaches that we've had, the energy uses and environmental impact of AI. And in actual fact, I was listening to a very interesting podcast recently on Diary of CEO, where there was a gentleman talking about the fact that the only reason we've bought into AI so rapidly is because of the pro propaganda around the marketing of it is, you know, like being told that it's coming and we don't have a choice. And yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Jump on or get left behind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah. So please, everyone, put your feelings around AI aside, because if you are very, very anti-AI, this program is not going to be for you.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

No, but if you want to run a business that's time-leveraged and highly efficient and gives you time, space, and freedom to actually do the work you enjoy, then you'll love it.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Yes, yes. Because what have we seen happen time and time again, year after year, is people starting businesses, they they don't know how to do the work to figure things out. And that's when they're reaching out to you know, coaches, course creators, all of those people. Nothing wrong with that. But as somebody who, heaven help me, has spent an absolute fortune going down those pathways for little to no result many, many times. This is so much better.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah. And I think we should point out for the audience at this point what makes this different is that it is a self-study, standalone product that you buy and implement in your own business in your own time. So for us, yeah, the exciting fun part is creating these amazing tools that we've already had incredible feedback on with the very first workbook we released, and that has just helped so many businesses. And we saw it again in Bali, the clarity they got through working through these prompts that you've engineered. So we are creating this tool and we are going to sell it as an online standalone product that you buy and then go implement in your in your business yourself with all the support around it. That frees us up from the need to hand hold for people, although there will be that option for people to reach out and get support if they need it, but we're not going to be doing that, at least not initially, in a group format. We're going to make these tools available, sell it as an online course, and yeah, we're going to give them a so it comes back to that proven things that do work. We know that a customer journey does work when you've got something free to give something a taster, give people a taster of something. So we're going to offer the first prompt, which is about your why. We're going to offer that for free because we know people have had amazing results just with that one prompt.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Then we're going to hard, right, Kate. It's really hard to get to your true why.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yeah, well, we had a business owner on the retreat who's been in business for 20 nearly 30 years, and he did the prompt. It took him most people, it takes around two hours. It took him four hours because he hadn't applied that level of thought and depth to his thinking for his business in 20 years. And he said it was the most profound thing he's done in a long time. So yeah, it's not just for new businesses, it's for people that have just sort of gone head down, bum up, run a business, and then at some point you step back and take a look at the big picture, and you can really refine and sharpen and hone all your business positioning and messaging to really start running in a much more powerful business. Anyway, that aside, what we do know works in marketing is you give people a taste of something that you have and you build trust through that. Then they want to try something a little bit bigger. So we're going to be selling, we think it's a $35 workbook, which is purely for quadrant one section of the thriving business wheel. Yes. Which will give them the full business identity suite of prompts so that they come out of that with one document which contains their entire business identity in one document, which is absolutely essential to make AI work well for you and to define anything further you do in business. So we know that's super powerful. So that'll be $35. And then for the people that want to then buy all the prompts for the full thriving business wheel, they can then upsell into $97 for one quadrant or pay $397 for the full wheel, where they'll have access to all the prompts to run a really good tight business. So that is sort of what we would call the customer journey. And you build trust and credibility stepwise. And we know that works from previous experience. And I guess it's the age-old debate between what's more lucrative for coaches, an online group coaching program or online courses and things that you sell that don't require your time and input. We've had to, we got we fell into the trap of thinking group coaching is more lucrative until we realized we really don't like doing it. And now we're going back to okay, what feels good? Well, creating something powerful and selling it feels really good.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

And so that's what we've chosen to focus on.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Yes. Yeah. And I think too, uh I earlier today when I was working on some of this cake, one of the things that occurred to me was in a world where speed is everything to people, they want the shortcuts, they they want they want it today. And the fact that we know that this business identity piece of the puzzle does take hours. Because I thought this is really going to put people off. I actually think though that the reverse is true because it's the fact that is taking, yes, but the fact that it's taking so long, to me, that's evidence of its power and its strength. And the fact that really a coach, if you're working with a coaching client, this is months and months worth of coaching work impacted into a Saturday afternoon or you know, like a half an hour a day over the course of a week, you know, that kind of thing. And the other thing is that I'm anti-silver bullet because those quick things that everyone thinks are wonderful, they're really not helpful in your business. And co coaches know this. We all know this. It it's great to think that something's gonna be a shortcut to you know a million dollars. Yeah. But how many times have we we gone down that path? And again, it's the coaching trap, isn't it? As coaches, how are we gonna do this quickly? How are we gonna get clients? How are we gonna do that? We're all trying to circumvent doing this work, the work that we're saying to people, stop. AI is going to make this quicker. It's still gonna take time, but AI is going to make this quicker for you.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

And it's invested time. It's not time that you're burning on something that may or may not work. It's time that you're investing to get coached through the fundamentals of running a good business by AI.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

And people have said that what they loved about it, and and you're right, previously it would take months to work through this with a client to get all their business identity, their why, vision, mission, values, their brand voice, their ideal customer profile, their point of difference, their brand style, all of that used to take, we we ran a six-week course just on that.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yeah. And now you can the feedback we've had is people love it because they can work through it in their own time. There's no pressure of, say, a coaching session where you're live with someone and you have to think. And I know a lot of my clients can't think clearly on the spot when they're being prompted by a human. Like they feel pressure or yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Having a human sit in front of you asking these questions, it puts a veil over the answers because, particularly if you're working with a new client, the trust hasn't been built yet. And without the trust, people tend to edit what they're going to share. Yeah. Whereas AI, they're sitting there and they're like, Well, no one's gonna see it and AI can't judge me. And it's and so people tend to be a lot more forthright with AI.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Because I think it's more private, yeah. Especially if you've got your settings set, you know. To high privacy and so on. But there's also the way our brains work. Some people, I know I'm someone like this. They don't like to be put on the spot and made to answer questions. I need to go away in my own time and work things out in my own time and space. So those hot seat coaching things have never really worked for me because I don't like being put on the spot. And I know I've got a lot of clients that say that too. They say, I'm really sorry. Can you just give me the questions and I'll work through them on my own time?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

You know, and oh, I can think of one person we both know that's very much like that cake.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Oh, okay. Were they on the retreat?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

We actually had a couple of them like that, didn't we? That epitomized why this works so well because they don't want to be put on the spot.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Yeah. And so it's very good for introverts or people that process in private, like I do. I used to be really envious of the people that could, you know, think quickly on their feet, but that's that's not me. I I, you know, it's I think we all have different preferences for how we work through things. Anyway, the feedback we've had is these prompts give them the opportunity to work through things in their own time, their own space, and in their own privacy, and then they can come back and then everything's sort of really clearly mapped out. Yeah. And so how this would relate to other coaches, I think you do have to really figure out what lights you up. Do you really love running live workshops? Like, what's the thing that you draw energy from? Do you love getting lots of people in a room in person? Do you love running getting people in a space online? Do you love private coaching one-to-one? And then I think for a long time you and I thought that we loved groups. And I think we're not excluding it. It's just it's that hand holding that you and I both find draining, sort of.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Yeah, yeah. And also it depends, you know, like we were talking earlier about groups, and I was sharing with you my preference for how groups are run. And the fact that, you know, that the longevity of group programs probably doesn't suit me so well. So that and I think too, when we're talking about all these different business models for coaches, you know, what what you're going to choose, there are so many nuances within each of those two. And because we're avoiding doing the work of figuring out who we are and what we want, and we are just imitating following a recipe or a formula from other coaches. Yeah, yeah. I think this is this is where we we tend to not be as successful as we would like to be.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Yeah. And it can't it was interesting with the way the universe works because you and I came back from Bali. We both felt depleted. So that was a sign that something wasn't working, and the way we delivered that. Others, the people on the retreat seemed to love it. They got lots out of it, but we've we've worked out. And then I I had breakfast soon after that with a friend who's also a coach, and she just announced off the bat, I'm shutting down my membership group. It's not profitable. I hate running it. I've it's run its course, I've had enough, I'm pulling the pin. I was like, Wow, why? She's and then she said, I'm going back to I Know What Works, which is selling online courses and and products. And she's got a really good YouTube channel. And I think that's where online courses can work. And I and interestingly, again, synchronicity, a couple of days after having that conversation with the coach around shutting down her membership group, I was then on a call with a marketing team, and they were showing me the results that a consultant was getting with an online course that she sold for $97. And she'd made over, you know, $150,000 in sales from selling this course, which was an upsell into her bigger course of a couple of thousand dollars. But off a off a single $97 product, she'd she'd made over $100,000. You know, and that's leveraged time because she's invested the time in making that course. It's hitting a real pain point and a demand in the market. And then she basically that model you can allocate a budget, say 10%, some say $150,000 she's made in revenue, 10% of that would be $15,000 a year that you would then spend on ads to promote that, to reach the cold audience of all the people to reach the people who need that thing. And so that's a much more time spacious model where you've invested the time, then you go out and sell it with advertising. And that's kind of what they call passive income. It's not you know, you've got to invest the time to get the passive income, but that is the kind of time freedom we all want in our business where you you're you're making money that's independent of your time. That's where you get scale, and that is scalable because then you can put more advertising money on it, put $30,000 on it and reach 300,000 people. Do you know what I mean? Make $300,000 in sales, but it's independent of your time.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah. I I think there is this, there is this other problem that I believe a lot of new coaches tend to have, in that, you know, we talked about our customer journey, Kate, and and what we're working on. And I think there are too many coaches that are burning out because their entire customer journey is them. They don't have this leveraged, more passive, time-leveraged buildup to the high-ticket thing, which is really where they should be sitting, because that's where the real money is made, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yeah. And ideally, you know, I'm thinking back to the times when I had my pathfinding course when I was pre doing career coaching. And I finally got that all up into one product online where people because I realized I'd been teaching the same thing over and over and over again, and I was getting bored of it. So I put it into a course and and made it available. It's you know, and again, self-study, self-paced learning, people can work through it in their own time. There was videos and worksheets. And that also meant that people could go off and consume that, digest that in their own time, get the results, so that if they did want coaching or support, the conversation I would had with them was a lot richer and a lot more valuable because they'd done the groundwork and all the hard, the hard yards, the hard thinking, so that then we could really say, okay, now that you know all that, what's next? You know, and it's the same for our Thriving Business Launchpad. Once someone comes to us and they've worked their way through the parts of the wheel that they're stuck on, then they can come to coaching with a much higher value, you know, question instead of us having to help them through the sort of the lower things that they could figure out on their own. So for all coaches, I would say, what do you find that you're teaching over and over again? What are the key concepts that you spend most of your time coaching? And how do you then package that into something where you can get people to consume that so that then when they come to you, they're in a much more informed place or a much clearer place where you can actually get them better results?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yeah. And Payne, I think too, this is probably where people don't get the ROI on investing in coaching that they think they're going to get. Because all of that foundational work that they've never done before or that they've done but not properly. Yeah. The coaching time, you're absolutely right. The coaching time is spent doing stuff that should have been done before you showed up for coaching. That's right. And then you're like, oh, I've been coaching for 12 months and I haven't got anywhere. Yeah, because the work that you needed to do before you started working with the coach.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

Yeah. So I think this works on several levels for you and I because it takes away that awful feeling of someone not getting results when you're working with them. They're paying good money, but they're not seeing the results. Now you can say, right, go away, work your way through this. When you finish comeback, let's look at everything, then we can, you know, have a much better conversation that will actually get you somewhere. Yes. So, yeah. So for anyone out there, and you might yeah, what is the part of your expertise that you can package up? And and I know so many people doing this well, and I'm, you know, a bit disappointed in myself that it's taken me this long. No, I've been head down, bum up, you know, working through personal stuff, and I fell into the trap of just falling into what I knew worked and I could make money from, but being extremely time poor then and not leveraging my time. And my Claude has been looking through my accounting system and and yeah, full disclosure says you are running a business that's not time leveraged. I'm like, I know, and I've had a business that's time leveraged. Yeah, we've done with this before. We know it's the other challenge is finding the time to invest in the thing that creates the passive income while making money and keeping everything ticking over, you know. And I think I think that's the trap I've been in in the last three or four years, two or three years, I should say. Now I'm in the place where I have the clarity, thanks to what you and I've discovered together over the last year and a bit around, you know, what works, what doesn't work, what people value, what what what they'll they're willing to pay for, what really solves their pain points. So now we've got the clarity, and I think that's what I've been missing. What is the thing that I build that's going to give me the leverage time? And I've been spinning my wheels on that for a couple of years because I haven't it hasn't crystallized for me until now.

unknown 31:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

I'm sorry, I just had there, I've had this weird little video running in my brain of you know, in the movies where you've got the speeding train and the person's running and running and running, and they're trying to, you know, there's someone on the train saying, Come on, come on, just reach out your hand. That to me represents what most people are operating their businesses like. They're the ones running alongside the train. And then I'm like, what if the person just stopped running for a minute, turned around because there's another carriage with another person who, as the train speeds by, is just going to pick them up. And I because I don't know why this is the video, but while you were talking about this, all I could think of was the amount of times I've said to Dave the only way to fix the hamster wheel is to stop running on it for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

That's the only way. But convincing people to just stop running for a sec and do the thing that's going to actually help them not have to run anymore, that's the hard part.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

It is the hard part. That's what I've been. It's the hard part for me is the two things. It's the clarity, the motivation, the inspiration, and then the actual carving out time to work on it.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Because you can carve out time but not have the clarity, and so you you don't get anywhere. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Yeah. And you've just described the retreat perfectly, Kate. Have I?

SPEAKER_02 33:26

The clarity and the time. And oh yes. That's what we were saying. What was the one thing that people really got out of the retreat? Was the spaciousness and having that time to get the clarity. Yeah. You can't take that really inspired, you know, when you get in flow and you're so focused and you're so motivated and it's head down bum up, you can pump stuff out, which is kind of where you and I are at now, because we've but you can't get into that flow ultra motivated, ultra clear, focused mode unless you have the clarity about what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Yeah. And you can't get the clarity until till you get off the hamster wheel and stop.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

So yeah, I think we've decided we probably will run the retreat next year because people love that spaciousness and get so much out of it. But we're just going to do it differently. We wouldn't do the we're not going to do any group coaching, or it'll be focused time. It'll be basically space to do your own thing, plus a couple of focused coaching sessions to help you, to help prompt you. You know, everyone will have to have done their prompts before they come so that they've done the hard work, which means that in Bali they have a high value conversation, which then allows the con the clarity to percolate in that spaciousness is when that clarity then drops in. And then you can hit the ground running and get into that ultra flow mode.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah, and maybe maybe it needs to be called something else apart from a retreat. Yeah. Maybe it's maybe it's the maybe it's an escape.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

I like that because that's really what it is. Yeah, with the goal. The goal is to recharge, reset, and get clarity.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah, just stop for a minute, because like you said, that that is the feedback that we get. And I think too, I I think people grossly undervalue the the actual stopping for a minute. Grossly undervalue that because we're so used to going 100 miles an hour flat out, you know, 24-7 as business owners. I don't think we fully, you know, and particularly if you've been in business for some time, you forget what it's like when you actually just stopped.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah. And it's like what we talked about at the retreat in that book, Wink, where it says, when you have a clear vision, your best work is done when you're not working.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yes. Yes. This is so true.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah, which is why when you go to Bali and you have that space, that's where you get the real inspiration. And we say clarity so often it almost sounds, you know, but it's so powerful being able to figure out what is the thing I've got to do next that feels really energized and aligned. And you and I needed that time out to to figure out you know what works for us and what doesn't. Yeah. And as a result, we've pivoted entirely, but it's a good thing. It's it is a good thing. Otherwise, we would have been dragging our bums around and trying to make something, you know, would it flogging a dead horse, as they say.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Well, yes. And we we've we've developed enough things that turn out to be, you know, Frankenstein's monster more than more than anything else.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Yeah. Yeah. So I hope this conversation was helpful for other coaches where you're fig trying to figure out what's my business model, what's the journey that's gonna that's gonna give my clients really good results and feel really good for me to deliver. And yeah, if if you have any questions, reach out to us. But it's don't just go follow someone else's playbook. I know it's tempting because some of the ads on Facebook are really, really compelling. And good. Oh, I've just got to do that one thing, and then you know, and I've got to buy that person's formula for doing that thing. And but if that person's formula is for group coaching and that and sometimes you have to try this stuff to figure it out as well. Like, you know, maybe you try group coaching for a year. I mean, I did it for two years and just lost motivation for it after a while. Yeah, a lot of this stuff, it's the old Matt Church philosophy of try stuff and 50% will fail, 50% will feel really good and it'll become a mainstay, and that'll how you that'll be how you generate revenue. But yeah, if it's really about that alignment between head and heart, because we can run businesses with our head, but eventually you'll burn out, you know. And we both kind of experienced that. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. And I think you said you were doing group coaching because you thought it's what you had to do.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Yeah, and like I say, I've I've been part of groups, as in like I've led groups that and I've really, really enjoyed it, but I've had to work out what I did enjoy, what what was it about those experiences that I enjoyed and pick them up and put and separate them from the whole. Yeah. And and it's work to do that, and it's and it's about being really honest with yourself as well. Because it's so easy to get caught up thinking, oh, I can do this. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. And it doesn't mean you can for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Yeah. And things might just be for a season as well. I ran my mastermind group for it, it was really, really fun in the first year, and then I started losing a little bit of motivation the second year, but people wanted to keep it going. But when your heart's not in it, it just sort of fizzles away, you know. So yeah, things again, I think be a bit lighthearted about it, try stuff. And if if you love it and it's and it sticks, great. If if it's if it doesn't, you want to close it down, that's also great. There's no such thing as failure, it's just all learning.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah, yeah. I think the one lesson or the one takeaway that I want to carry forward into 2027, because Kate, it's almost time for us to do 2027 planning. It is because you know, October is here. Is I previously I've done like I've been selling something and then I stop it because I want to start doing something else. And I think what I want to carry through is more of a transition so that I'm not chopping my business in half.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Yes, and I feel really excited about that too, because I feel like we can hit the ground running in 2027 finally. Yeah, yeah. This year was about trying stuff.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yeah. I I'm really proud of us, Kate. Last year we mapped out this is what we want to do in 2026, and we checked every single box.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

We didn't have one workshop, but yes, we didn't. Which we didn't feel inspired to deliver, so we didn't.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

But that's okay. The the fact we didn't specify for workshops. We said we want to run these workshops and we want to do a retreat, and that's what we did, and we were purposeful about the podcast, and that's what we did.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

When we had that purpose, our downloads skyrocketed. We had our biggest download month ever in April this year when we relaunched the the roadmap to business success. Yeah, because when we get aligned and excited, everyone else, all our people around us, we um get excited and want to be want to listen, you know, be part of it. Yes. And I think we we achieved our goals, that's right, and we learned so much. And we just lost a bit of oomph towards the end because we really weren't loving the group coaching stuff. And but that's great learning because now we know, okay, going into 2027, we're going to get this freebie up, which is huge value, then a $35 product up, which is massive value, then we'll get the you know, the launch, the thriving business launch pad up. People get huge value from that. We'll put some budget on ads and just keep building our list and and you know, building community, talking to those people. And that is a really feels like a really good, inspiring way of generating clients for you and I both, but also generating revenue based off the products that we've loved creating. Yes, yes. So that part feels great, and you and I both then have our own consulting businesses off the side of that, you for systems and profitability, and me for the marketing revenue generation, so on. So I feel like the clarity is finally there for us both after one year. And yeah, we're gonna watch this space, gonna make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yes, we are, we are, because yeah, we we set intentions and we do it.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

Yeah. And this time I think it feels really good, feels very aligned. It does, it does. So, all you coaches out there, I hope this has been helpful. Get get the um alignment, which unfortunately only happens through taking time out and having space and thinking really deeply. And if you want the prompts to help you, they're very powerful. So get your hands on our AI setup workbook while it's still free because we are about to relaunch as a paid version with just the why part will be available for free. But that's powerful on its own.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

So if you need help, it is phenomenal on its own.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Yeah, yeah. So thrivingbusinesspodcast.com, go there, get the get their workbook while it's there, and watch this space. Yeah. All right, everyone. Hope you love building your lucrative business models, and we will look forward to seeing you next time. Thanks so much. Bye for now.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

The place where business owners go to get things done. Your first session is free. Head to thrivingbusinesspodcast.com to claim your spot. Thanks for listening to the Thriving Business Podcast.