Ep #12 | Beyond the Sale: Designing a Remarkable Client Experience that Keeps Happy Customers Coming Back

Welcome to Episode 12 of the Roadmap to Business Success series, and our third episode in Quadrant 3: Grow Smart | Capacity!

Most businesses pour their energy into acquiring new clients. The most successful businesses pay enough attention to what happens after the sale. Did you know that it costs five to seven times more to acquire a new client than to retain an existing one? And your best marketing is a client who won't stop talking about you and refers you to all their friends.

In this episode, Kate and Sam get practical about how to design a client experience so consistently good that it turns happy customers into raving fans who refer others , and keep coming back themselves.

"Your best marketing is a client who won't stop talking about you. Design your experience to create those people."

We cover:

• Why remarkable experiences don't happen by accident: Every great client experience is the result of intentional design and consistent systems, not luck or personality
• The client journey map: How to identify every touchpoint from first enquiry to final delivery, and why systemising each one is the foundation of consistent quality
• Onboarding done right: Why what happens immediately after someone pays you sets the tone for the entire relationship, and the simple automations that eliminate no-shows and buyer's remorse
• Human versus automated: Why you need to understand your client journey manually before you automate any part of it, and where technology enhances the experience versus where it undermines it
• Feedback as a growth tool: Why positive feedback tells you nothing useful, and how to ask questions that actually reveal where your client experience is falling short
• The Google review system: Why asking once rarely works, and why timing your request immediately after a win dramatically increases your conversion rate
• Post-engagement follow up: Why the relationship shouldn't end when the contract does, and how a simple check-in system keeps clients warm and generates referrals
• Living up to the hype: Why it's always better to shrink your marketing promises and over-deliver on the experience
• The consistency formula: Systems create consistency. Consistency creates trust. Trust creates referrals. Referrals create growth.

Kate and Sam also share real stories from the experience side, good and bad.

They also discuss the exciting frontier of AI avatars that can deliver personalised video messages to new clients, and why the businesses that combine smart automation with genuine human warmth are the ones that will win long-term.

Coming Up Next: Episode 13 Designing a business that doesn't break you. How to protect your energy, design for sustainability, and make sure that as your business grows, your life gets better, not worse.

Join the Workshop: Kate and Sam are hosting their Grow Smart Workshop on Wednesday 24th June — bring your questions on business models, capacity, hiring, client experience and scaling and get coached live.

👉 Register here

And save the date — Bali Business Retreat

27 August – 1 September 2026. Secure your spot with a $200 deposit: https://katedejong.com/inspired-business-bali-retreat/

Kate’s Blog: "10 Questions to Get Valuable Feedback" https://katedejong.com/how-to-get-great-testimonials-and-market-research-data/

Don't let your clients fall into the "hole" of silence after they sign up. Tune in to learn how to build the systems that create trust, consistency, and ultimately, a thriving business.

Thriving Business Podcast 🌐Website:   https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ 

Connect with Your Hosts:

Kate De Jong, PhD | Inspired Business 

🌐 Website: https://katedejong.com/ 

📱 Instagram: @katedejong.inspiredbusiness 

✉️ Email: kate@katedejong.com

Sam Morris | The O8 

🌐 Website: https://www.theo8.com/ 

📱 Instagram: @the_o8crew 

✉️ Email: sam@theo8.com

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NOTE - OUR WORKSHOPS AND RETREAT WILL BE BACK IN 2027!

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Thriving Business, the podcast for ambitious business owners who want systematic growth without the burnout. Hosted by Kate Deung and Sam Morris, these business powerhouses bring you proven frameworks and real strategies to help you build a business that actually thrives.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Welcome back to the Thriving Business Podcast, everyone. We're delighted to be to be here with you again today. Hello, Sam. Hi, Kate. So we're up to episode 12 today of our roadmap to business success, which is the season two um version of this podcast. So Sam and I have been recording since well, it's coming up to three years in June, which is pretty exciting. Yes. So this roadmap to business success was our um our idea of packaging everything we've learned over the last, well, for Sam it's been two decades, for me, nearly a decade in business building and putting it in a format that new businesses and even established businesses can follow to make sure your foundations are right and that you're getting all the different parts of your orchestra playing in in harmony together. So we started off. Um, those of you that have been following us will be familiar with the Thriving Business Wheel, which is our framework. Uh, we started off in quadrant one, which was all about revenue generation. Then we moved to quadrant two, which was all about profitability and efficiencies. And now we are in quadrant three, which is all about your business capacity and growth. And yeah, at the end of each quadrant, we have a live coaching workshop. So we've now had two amazing live workshops. We had one on the 15th of April about revenue generation, and just last week we had our um profitability workshop, which is all about efficiencies and money mastery and AI systems. And of course, the focus was on AI because that's what everyone wants to talk about these days. Did you enjoy it, Sam?

SPEAKER_02 1:57

I love you. Look, anytime AI is involved, you know that I'm I'm first in line, Kate. I love it. And even today, you know, in before we started recording, you know, each week we've been doing some planning for our retreat that's coming up in Bali. Exactly. Definitely, because we are limiting this to how many people come along so that we can deliver supreme value, which is coincidentally what today's topic is all about on the podcast. But we yes, we've got we've got AI doing the lead work, finding venues and and and all of that sort of thing for this retreat. So we're really starting to pull it together and people have started to pay deposits.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

So it is happening, and we're very, very excited. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And our, as you said, our goal is to make sure it's an amazing customer experience, and which is the topic of today. Um, and so yeah, now that we're in quadrant three, which is all about capacity and growth, we started off by talking about your business model, how that you can plan strategically for growth, and that if you don't have a business model, then you're sort of flying by the seat of your pants. So if you haven't listened to that and you're in need of a good business model, go back and listen to that one. And then we moved into to hire or not to hire, how to build a strong team, um, which was a very interesting topic as well. And now today we're on delivering a remarkable client experience every time. So, how do you do that? And that's what we're going to be talking about.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yes. And I think, Kate, so many people focus on the actual acquisition part of their business and then don't focus on the client experience. And we we we've already known for many, many years that the cost of acquisition is so much higher than the cost of retention. So we've got to have something amazing in place to keep clients once we've got them.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Yeah. And the power of word of mouth is just so important and strong, and especially in Australia, and I'm in Perth, so it's all about word of mouth. And um, it's it's really, really important to deliver a consistently high-quality customer experience every time if you want word of mouth to work for you. And Sam, you and I have both worked together as coaches in a company where, as you say, the focus was on customer acquisition and not enough attention was paid to that client experience. And it really, really disappoints people when that isn't paid enough attention to, and people feel like they've been ripped off, or they um, you know, they have buyers regret, and then and then it's really impossible in that situation to get good reviews and to get good word of mouth, and that never sat right with you and I anyway, because um we are we are by nature people who want to give our customers a great experience. We want people to get value for money and to feel like they've invested their money well with us, and so that is a very big focus for both of us in our businesses. So we're gonna talk through some of the ways you know that you can do that. Yeah, so Sam, what was the last time you had a really, really good customer experience?

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Oh my goodness. You're talking to the person who works from home doesn't go out very much. Okay, sorry. I I think the last time I had a really good customer experience is going to get my nails done, which I don't do very often. It's it's it's a treat for me. And can I just say that there is the local nail place that you go to that's usually located in your big shopping center, and they're very much, you know, um pump the customers through, you know, they've got lines of chairs and and everything else and you're in and out. And you kind of that that's the expectation when you go in there. But I this is this is really horrible. I don't know if people want to know about this now. I've gone down this path. I I had the experience of going into those places and coming out where I've been, you know, like had a little cut where they just trim being too rough, trim too much, and you know, and just little things like that have ruined the whole experience. So now I pay extra and I go to the proper beautician that's not in the shopping center, and I do pay more, but again, it's a treat that I don't do very often. But the experience of going there is that I'm always booked in with the same person who remembers the conversation that we had last time I was in, and sometimes it's like five, six months since I've had it done. Wow. We go in and we pick up where we left off from last time and and the experience and the way they make you feel when you go in there versus just the the quick in and out shop in the shopping center. They're worlds apart. Yeah, and you pay extra to have that. Yeah, I pay more for the experience because they take their time, they're careful. I you know, I'm not ending up with the horrible, you know, like the tiny little cut from where they're trimming, you know, little things like that make the difference. Yeah. And where where you think people might be price sensitive, and oh, you know, you can go to 10 other places, why would they come to me? This is where you've got to think about price sensitivity will only get you so far. Don't be afraid to price if you're offering better service.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah. Yeah, and we had a quick chat about this before we went live about your business um PSN that you run with your husband, the automotive business, how um you have no troubles getting clients and your retention is very high because you treat your customers really well. And you did mention that some of your customers uh occasionally leave to see if they can get a better deal somewhere else, but they eventually come back because the they even though they got a uh cheaper price, the customer experience wasn't the same. So they end up coming back.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Yeah, yeah, the level of service was not on par. And not not it's not just all the frilly bits like making them feel good and and knowing who they are and all of that sort of thing. The actual service that is delivered is just as important, you know, doing a really good job. Yeah. So so the client experience has to be thought about very, very carefully. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I think, one of the points we want to make today that every remarkable experience is the result of intentional design. It's consistent systems and it's a real commitment to making sure people feel seen and valued. And in that story that you told, the difference between the two salons, one of them makes you feel important. They they pay attention and remember stories that you've shared previously. So you feel important and valued, and you'll go back for that. Yeah. So yeah, good customer experience is what separates the businesses that grow um through word of mouth and the ones that are just constantly chasing new clients, as we know.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Chasing new clients all the time is exhausting. Absolutely exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

And not cost-effective. I mean, you can put you can throw money on ads till the cows come home, you know, but unless you're retaining them, yeah, it's uh through through good experience, giving people good experiences, it's it's not really achieving a good long-term outcome. And I think this episode and the next episode, we're talking about longevity in business as well. Like you can apply those short-term tactics, but you're you're gonna burn out and fade away pretty quickly, you know. So these are tactics that are if you're serious about being in business for the long game, then you've got to pay attention to this intentional design of your customer experience.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yes, yes. And I think, you know, we we talk so much about AI, Kate, and and everyone gets so excited to at the capability of AI to automate so much in their business. But my belief is that with the with the client experience, you have to get that uh down pattern before you can start letting AI step in and automate parts of it. You have to actually work it through manually. That that's my belief to make sure things work so that you understand how things work. And like you say, intentional design. But I think I think while you're building your business, you need to do it all yourself.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yes, definitely. Yeah, you need to know what those touch points are and um yeah, have it all very clearly mapped out in your head. And then then it's things like CRMs that help automate that process. And AI is coming a long way now. I know um we may be bringing um along my colleague Bruno to our next workshop on the 24th of June, just to give an overview of AI chatbots these days, because they have come a long way and they sound human and they are a great way for businesses that have a steady stream of telephone inquiries and customer inquiries, and they catch people early, give them a good interaction, get the goal achieved, which is maybe book a book a book a meeting or an appointment. Um and I know the businesses that he's helping, trades and so on, they're just loving it because finally they've got a an a telephone assistant 24 hours that you know does a really good job. So those things are evolving and coming a long way. But I think what you're alluding to, Sam, is you've also got to have that right mix of human versus um, you know, um systemized automated responses.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Yes. I I don't believe that you can effectively automate any part of your business until you truly understand how those parts work.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah. Yeah. So if we were to um, you know, talk people through all the touch points they might have in your business, for example. Um, you know, so for example, on my website, if people want to reach out to me, there's a book, a book a discovery call, and that does go to my calendar system where um you know I've I invite them to book a 30-minute free call with me. And then that process is automated. People book in, they get a confirmation straight away through my CRM, which is all personalized. So I've gone in there and put a personal message saying how much I'm excited to speak with them. And and what that does, that form collects their um questions that they have for me. So before I end up, or well, before I meet them online, they've had several reminders from me. They've had a firstly they've had a confirmation, thanks for booking with me. Then they get a one-week reminder if it's a more than a week out, then they get a 24-hour reminder beforehand. And this is by text and by um email. And so I rarely get no shows, and then I there's one final reminder an hour before the meeting, just to remind sometimes. People say, gosh, you really make sure that we turn up to the meeting, don't you? And and yeah, otherwise it is before implementing this system, it was common. I think my show show-up rate was significantly less, whereas now it's pretty much 100% just through implement implementing some consistent um processes. And then by the time I meet them in the discovery call, I've already got a an overview of what they're needing and what they're wanting from the chat. So I can do a bit of research, I can go and look at their website, so I make sure I'm turning up to that call informed. And then, yeah, that usually means that my conversion rate on those calls is quite high. But I think what you're saying, Sam, is that is the acquisition piece. Then you've got the whole delivery piece beyond that, which is where you need to pay extra special attention because this is where they've actually spent money with you, and now they want to have a really, really good customer experience.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Yes. Can I just say that in my tiny little brain, what was spinning around while you were talking through that, is Kate next next level for you, next step for you will be diving into the world of having your AI avatar create a personalized message for each person that books with you. That that will be what comes next.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Yes, excited about that. So tell us a bit more.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Well, you know, because you know, you can create an AI avatar of yourself. And so the next step might be that based on the responses in in the form they fill in when they book with you, is uh a much more personalized AI avatar created video that talks to them about their specific challenges, uses their name, but it's you.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, say hi, I'll look at your website, it looks great. You've done really well on this, this, and this area. I'm excited to talk to you about XYZ.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

See you on the Yes, yeah, exactly. See you on the specific date. That that's that's where the AI is going, you know, and there there are business. I mean, it's not an original idea that it's already happening in some businesses. But uh but this is how we create a customer experience and how we can involve technology in that experience to make it more positive.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Yeah, but you first got to have, as you say, that client journey map, which is every single touch point a client has with your business from that first inquiry through to final delivery of the product or service, and you've got to map them all out and then systemise them.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Yes, and because you've been doing this for a long time, Kate. So you know what these touch points are and you've experimented with your customer journey and done all of that legwork before. So you're you're very primed for introducing more technology into your system.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yeah, whereas if you're a little bit newer, I'd say get the basic system mapped out, get the basics in place. And even like you and I were saying, Sam, you know, you were asking me about these strategy sessions that we, you know, are offering to our clients out of the workshops, because a lot of them have been reaching out and asking for, in your case, AI support. And um, and you were asking me about the automation of the payment thing, um, you know, which is obviously something when you're doing courses and products and things, that's important. But in this case, um, I said to you, I've just been invoicing people, keep it simple. Yeah, like you don't always need to have a an automated system. I think what's important is that you, when that person expresses interest, you jump on it straight away, get them booked in, and then um yeah, what are those touch points? Then it's okay, take payment, then you then you do the um the session. Nowadays, to deliver a really good client experience, we do rely heavily on technology. I do now in terms of recording that meeting, because all our meetings are 90% of all my meetings are in Zoom. So I um I obviously get AI to record that meeting so that I can send the client really, really good session notes. Um, I can use get the help of AI to summarize what we've agreed as actions. Um, yeah, and then making sure most of our clients want checklists and things that they need to do between sessions. So making sure they have, you know, what is your format for delivering that to them, and then how are you checking in with them along the way? I know for me at the end of each session, I need to make sure I book the next session in if that's what they're wanting, because otherwise that falls off the radar. So, yeah, it's getting those touch points mapped out really clearly. How do you keep a customer engaged with your process? How do you keep them feeling important to you, feeling valued by you, and that they're getting a good experience? And I know that I have been winging that a lot along the way in recent years, and sometimes you get you've got a lot of balls you're trying to juggle and keep in the air, which is not ideal. So this is where the systemization comes in and is really, really important.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Yes. And it's interesting too, Kate, when you said earlier about, you know, that people had comment to you that, oh, you know, you really wanted to make sure I showed up for my appointment today. And even feedback like that makes you assess am I sending enough reminders? Am I not sending, you know, am I sending too many reminders? Yes, I have asked that question. Yes, it's all about learning about what this journey for your ideal client, what this journey actually looks like, whether it's two reminders or five reminders, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, and I did ask them then, oh, is it too much? And I've had because people say that a lot, I said, would you prefer less reminders? And they usually say, Oh no, I need them. It's just it's just clear that you really want me to turn up. And I'm like, Well, I do. I really want you to turn up. And so, and I think there's nothing worse, isn't there, than I mean, I'm sure there are worse things, but it's very disappointing when you sign up for something and you're all excited, and then you don't get a confirmation, or you don't hear from that person, or like in your mind, you've made the decision to reach out to this person and then you don't hear anything, and it's really deflating. Um, so we just want to make sure we don't let people fall in that in that hole.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

No, no, and I love to, you know, when when you're talking about, you know, getting AI to deliver the checklist and the report and and all of that sort of stuff based on your session. Because what I what I've learned about myself from coaching was that I need a lot of notes and that and I do take a lot of notes when I'm talking to someone. But when I started using AI to record the meeting, I was able to focus so much more on the person because I wasn't sitting there writing everything down. So this is how technology can really help improve even just how you're present with people.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Correct. Yeah, I'm loving that the way I mean I use Zoom and it's just the free AI transcription tool within Zoom, but um it gives you both the summary notes and it gives you the some the agreed actions at the top, then the sort of key summarized points from each topic of discussion, and then there's a link to the full transcript. So it is amazing because, like as you said, knowing that that's taken care of means you can be fully present in the conversation. And our brains only have so much capacity. Like sometimes when I read back through the notes, I think, oh gosh, wow, I forgot we talked about that. You know, I forgot we agreed that, you know, and so it is like having an amazingly powerful personal assistant in your back pocket now.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Yes, and and one of the things that we did want to uh to bring to people's attention today with regard to creating amazing client experiences is that point where you do go a little bit above and beyond the expectation of the person. And what that transcript and what that report allows you to do is pick up on little things where you're like that that would literally take me five minutes extra to just help them with that. Yes. And so sending them something that's helpful, yes, that's not a big thing for you to add on to your workload, but is a massive benefit to the client.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah, that's right. Sometimes it's just a little canva graphic that you think, you know, might um they say, you know, I try to I need to make an information. Infographic and you whip one up and send it to them. You mean like this? And then that's an amazing customer experience because you're going above and beyond. And as you say, something that you can do really quickly and easily that make that adds a huge value to their world. So what are what are some of the things that you would send clients if you're able to?

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Oh my goodness. Um, well, look, I I still do take notes, uh, but my notes are more about my interpretation of the emotional side of the conversation because I know that AI is recording the you know the functional side. I know that it's recording and analyzing, but it doesn't interpret tone and it can't interpret facial expression, you know, like posture, body language, all of that sort of thing. So I couple Eddie transcriptions with my notes on how the person presents information, how they present themselves, um, and just you know, any of that intuitive stuff you get around they're saying this, but I'm not trusting what they're saying. I add all of that together, and I think that really deepens the insights that I can provide rather than just straight up AI analysis.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yeah, there is one read AI, is it, that does the sentiment analysis? It's actually listening to an emotion. Yeah, and it gives you a smiley face or a neutral face or a or a frowny face. Um, yeah, yeah, I remember that one, it's a paid version, I think, but I was using that for quite some time. Yeah, but I do find that people find it a bit disconcerting if your AI bot shows up in the meeting. So I I like to make sure it's sitting in the background because it's quite a little bit unnerving. I don't know, it's a personal preference, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Look, I think um another thing that I like to do, Kate, is not not hog the client. Because sometimes there are things that I know that I have colleagues or people I can refer to that will be able to help them more than I can. Absolutely. And I think there is immense value in saying go and speak to this person who can help you with that particular problem. Yeah. Yes, I could help you, but this person is actually so much better qualified and will give you a much better result. And then come back to me for what I'm the genius at by all means. But I think there is, you know, there is a lot of value in accepting sometimes that you need to refer people on.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Absolutely, yes. And um, yeah, that's something that you and I have a nice arrangement with. If if it's AI related, I say go speak to Sam. She's more uh, you know, on top of the latest developments with that. Um, yeah, so that's a very good point. Being humble enough to put the customer experience above your own um desire to get more money or whatever it might be. So yeah, refer them on where it's going to be a better experience for them. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah. And another one, Kate, is and and this is something that is absolutely famous for being a huge hole in the sales process as well as the client experience, you know, somebody that's actually worked with you is following up with people afterwards. Yes, and getting feedback. Yes, and and checking in on people, you know, like sometimes your working relationship finishes and you know, for whatever reason, but don't just leave people cold. And and I say that, and I'm horrified when I think about some of the connections I've had that from years ago, and I'm like, I would love to know how they're doing. Yeah, I would love to know what they went on to achieve and things like that. And I didn't do this in the early days, and I wish I had developed a system for maintaining not just be on my list, you know, on my email newsletter list, but actually maintaining some kind of regular contact with people, be it like, you know, three-monthly, six-monthly, an annual check-in just to see how they're going.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Yeah, that could be a great thing that AI could do is give you reminders of, hey, it's been 12 months since you worked with this person. Wouldn't that be cool? Because I'm like you. Sometimes I think of people, I think, oh, I wonder how they're going. And yes, um, I know that I worked really closely with a coach once, and you know, you feel like you fit form a bit of a bond with them. And then I feel like she just moved on and forgot completely about me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

And as a coach, you know, you sit there and you're like, we don't forget the people.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

No, we do think of them, but let let's let's take that sentiment and put it into some kind of action, some kind of system in your customer journey, which yeah, it would be check-in points because they may be struggling with something different 12 months on and need a little bit of advice or input. So, yeah, so these are the touch points with suggesting you think through, like what is your onboarding process? How do you make that client feel really welcome and comfortable and clear when you sign them up for something? And then how do you what are the touch points throughout the journey that where you're delivering the product or service where you need to engage with them, check in with them? As you say, when you finish working with someone, what have you got in place to continue checking in with them? A CRM and having them on your email database is um the minimal you should be doing, I would say, so that if someone's, you know, unfortunately, that's yeah, what I'm doing at the moment, it's not systematic in the way if a client pops into my head, I'll think I'll send them a text message, but I'm sure there's lots that I forget. And so, yeah, what is that system that you could implement to to make you check in more regularly? Um, my email database is the way I do that currently, it's by the regular newsletters I send out, but that's not, even though it's you know personalized calling them by their first name, it's not they know it's not a personal message from me to them. It's a it's an email to a to a list. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah, I can think of an example where I felt like this was done pretty well, Kate. A few months ago, one of my dogs had to have surgery and had you know, he he'd done his cruciate ligament. So he and and this is his second one. So he had surgery, and you know, I went and picked him up and brought him home. The following day, the clinic called to check in on how he was going, which you would, you know, you would expect, but it was and and because because I do this, I knew, but I received a series of text messages at intervals following that, which in my head I'm like, oh, their system sent me a text message. But it really elevates once again the experience and and the care that they show because it wasn't just the next day he's doing great. Okay, we'll see you next time he has to come in, or you know, we'll see you in a year. Um and if you didn't answer the text message, then it it bounced back to someone would then give you a call. So it wasn't just automated and then don't care if you got an answer. Um that they'd embedded the automation into this system, and where the automation wasn't being engaged with, they then would pick up and say, Oh, we sent you a message the other day, we just wanted to check in. That's so good. Really, really good.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah. Yeah. I know, and I'm familiar with those where, yeah, my dog I had to take to an emergency vet and they kept following up for for days, weeks afterwards. You think, wow, that's really I mean, it's an automated system, but it's they've thought about it, it's been intentional, and it does have the effect where you think they really take care of customers. I would go back there, you know. Yeah, the doctor doesn't do that. No, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Absolutely. No, I I remember uh I took Zach to the GP and his regular GP wasn't there, and I had to see another one, and she was so good. I loved her, and I'm like, I want her to be my GP. And she actually called about a week later and she said, I was just sitting here thinking about young Zach and I just wanted to see how you went with him.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

And I was like, this is unheard of from a G.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

That is absolutely unheard of. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah. And another really important point is actually asking for feedback. Yes. Uh I know a lot of people are a bit afraid to do that, but sometimes we hear things we don't want to hear. So um, you know, we but that but that the aim is to be continuously improving, right? So, for example, the workshop we ran on the 15th of April, we asked um our participants for feedback. Yeah. And it was overwhelmingly positive, but someone, a couple of them mentioned that the introductions were too long. And and you and I sort of went, yeah, actually, how can we do that better next time? So now we get people to introduce themselves in the chat so it's not cutting out into the really important live coaching time. So that was a really important learning that meant that next time our clients had a much better experience.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

So you've got to be willing to do that. And and yeah, feedback is a gift. So build systems to collect it and use it and show people that their feedback actually gets implemented as well.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

And yes, and honestly, positive feedback. I know we all want that to make ourselves feel good, but positive feedback is useless when it comes to system improvement. That's true. It does not tell you where you are going wrong, it does not tell you where you are losing out.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

So people need to really really try and get people to think about what were the negative aspects of this for you? You know, try try and find them for me. Yeah. Don't don't just be nice to save my feelings. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Yeah, and as always, we talk about this a lot, but have a system in place to get Google reviews because they um or any reviews, but they are just so critical these days to your social proof and your credibility. So, what is the process that you have? Um, for me, um, I probably should automate it, but usually it's when I've just finished with a client and I know they've had a good experience, then I say straight away, hey, it would really help me if you leave a short review. And they're usually more than willing to do that at that point. Um, so you could automate that process. And I know a girl that um a colleague who does automate that whole Google review request process, and because usually people don't do it when you ask the first time. No, they usually need to be nudged three, four, or five times to actually do it, and then um there's the rare people that will do it straight away, but normally once you've requested it and then it falls off your radar, it falls off their radar, and then you don't end up getting the review. Whereas they were very happy to give you one, they've just been busy or whatever. Yes. So, yeah, doing some work to automate that process can be can be beneficial as well. If you have a close-out call, then you might have a series of emails that goes out asking for feedback. I I tend to personalize that bit when it's private coaching because yeah, it's been a personal experience.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Yeah, I think too, when you when you're seeking feedback from people, I mean, uh separate from Google reviews, but I want to I I want to talk about those wretched reviews that you you're asked to give, or not reviews, but feedback you're asked to give every time you call the the really big national companies, like you're really telephone companies, electricity companies, like those utility services or banks.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

That was your experience.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Your feedback helps us, yeah. But the questions, that's not genuine feedback. Their questions are designed to not allow you the opportunity to actually tell them what you might be disgruntled with. So I do not understand how their feedback process is actually going to help them improve the service, or maybe they just don't want to know. But the way the questions are structured and the way they allow you to answer prohibits you from having a whinge about something if you're annoyed.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Yeah, there is definitely an art to asking questions in a way that gives helpful feedback. And I've actually written a blog on it. It's called Um 10 Questions to Get Valuable Feedback or something. And I could put it in the show notes, but how you frame the question is very, very important as to what kind of feedback you get back. Definitely don't want closed answers, which are you know yes or no. You want people to be specific and say to them, what specific part of the process did you enjoy most? You know, because it's the specifics that really give you the insight. Um, yeah, and what's one thing you enjoyed? What's one thing that could be improved? You know, that's all um yeah, asking questions in a way that that allows them to give insightful feedback, not just like fishing for the positive response or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

And I know I know Kate too, and I'm gonna talk about the retreat yet again, but you know, the the feedback that you've had from previous, like we're really leaning into that feedback to see what we can pull out that we can do that we can use when we're putting the next retreat together.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

That's right, yes. Because the last retreat I did two years ago, yeah, lots and lots of good feedback, but there were some real um, you know, um specific feedback points uh about what people could do in their free time, for example, that you and I are now using to make it an even better experience this time. Yeah, yeah. You've got to be brave enough to ask for the the bits that people were not a hundred percent satisfied with, you know, so that you can let's let's just say, Kate, that everyone was a hundred percent satisfied with you.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Just yeah, sometimes the logistics around it or you know can be improved, or yeah, yeah. You can never please everyone, but it's you do need to be aware of where you haven't pleased everyone, I suppose. And sometimes there's no getting around getting around that, but you just gotta wherever you can, yeah, put your best efforts in to mim to improve the experience next time.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Yeah, but this is what I say, like you know, that that's the process of building out what this client experience looks like. And if you jump in too soon to automate bits, you're gonna you're not gonna get it right as quickly as if you're in the trenches doing it yourself.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, and back to the point that you made early on, Sam, the the economics of client retention, it's the the numbers show that it costs five to seven times more to acquire a new client than to retain an existing one. And a referred client has a higher lifetime value and lower acquisition costs than any other type of lead. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Another thing where if someone refers to you, make sure you take good care of them. Um yeah, so your best marketing is a client who won't stop talking about you.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Yeah, that's what you want.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Design your experience to create those people. Yeah.

unknown 37:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

And so now that we do have all these fancy tools, we've got automation and CRMs, there's no no excuse for dropping the ball anymore. But um, it does take time to set those systems up. But once they are set up, they're yeah, they work like a treat. I had my um my calendar disconnected somehow from my CRM. And for a whole week I had people double booking or things, and it was just total chaos. And it really made me appreciate when the system works. It's it's a tr it's a gift.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah. Um, so you want to, yeah, were there any final points that you wanted to talk about, Sam?

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Uh, I think I think the own that one of the ones that we haven't addressed yet is living up to the hype. Because if we're going to talk about marketing and client acquisition, we have to address that the client experience is measured from the client's percep perspective by their expectations coming in. And the expectations coming in come from the word of mouth and the marketing and and all of those external sources. So whatever you put out there, you have to make sure that you can deliver on the plus, right? You are better off to shrink down your marketing and over-deliver than you are to say that you're going to do all of these things that you can't possibly achieve.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah, be realistic about your promises. And I think that's um a lot of us have experienced people that over-promise and underdeliver.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Yes, yes. And I think Hate that, you know, I I know personally I've paid for a lot of coaching programs and courses that I I've believed the hype, and the inside was a very different and disappointing thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Yeah. Yep, I think most of our listeners would be able to relate to that as well. Unfortunately, it's a bit of a um systemic problem in a lot of cases where the the marketing hype people do put so much focus on hyping up the marketing that um, yeah, you've got to be able to live up to to the hype, as you say. It's 100% true. And be able to deliver on the promise. So, whatever you're promising, you have to be able to make sure you can back that up with a good customer experience because it's it leaves a really sour taste in your mouth when you build you fall for when you you believe the hype, you invest your money, and then you're left feeling like you didn't get value for money, and it's really not a not a good feeling.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

No, and I think I I would love there to be more transparency out there with regard to completion rates and success rates for clients, because you know, we all we all see in the marketing uh results from clients. What we don't see is you got at least five clients that did amazing things, but how many other people did you work with? How many other people went through your course? How many other people bought your product or your service that didn't achieve the promise? Because was it a thousand people and you got five that achieved and five that were satisfied? Like what are what are those numbers? Because I don't think that there is enough transparency around that, and I think that there would be a big shift in the market if we did see those kinds of numbers.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

And I think the having transparency in that I believe would really it would help people create a very different experience for their customers if they had to.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

If they had to be transparent, it would be a different situation, but usually they don't, they're not required to be. And so people continue to fall for the hype because they're not getting the full picture.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah. Yeah. So I guess to to summarize a really good client experience, it's about consistency at every touch point. And systems are what create that consistency, and the consistency then creates trust, and the trust then creates referrals, and then the referrals create the growth that gives you that long-term, you know, um consistent growth, business growth without having huge marketing costs. Yes. Perfect. Yeah, yeah. So, like everything, I mean, we say in marketing as well, it's about consistency. Um, people get excited and appear on social media every day for three weeks and then drop off the radar. And you know, it's about, you know, choosing a frequency you can stick to, but customer service is all about consistency. So making sure you know what your customer journey is through every every touch point that you have with them. Um, what can you systemize and automate? Where do you have to step in and intervene? And just getting really intentional and clear about that whole process is what creates that that overall good experience. Yeah. Yeah. So um anything, anything that we missed, Sam, or any final thoughts? Oh, I don't don't think so. Did we miss anything? No, only to of course give another shameless plug for the Bali retreat.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Only because we're really excited about going to Bali.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

And we are working on making it an extremely transformational client experience. So we've got a lot of good, a lot of good stuff we have up our sleeve to to make it a great experience.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

I know. Kate, I've been so pumped after these workshops because they've been so good. Like I've just loved the groups that we've got to work with. And I think, you know, the the idea of doing that on steroids in Bali has just got me. It's it's got me very excited about the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Yes, me too. Because there's as um our listeners may or may not know, the workshops have been on Zoom, so they've been virtual workshops. Barley, of course, will be in room face to face, and we get to work directly with you on your business and do um, you'll get private coaching with us, um, you know, to get our eyeballs on your on your business. Um, so there's going to be lots and lots of um valuable stuff that you'll get out of it. Yes. All right, everyone. Well, that um is a wrap for today. We hope you found this helpful. We will be back again next week with our final episode for quadrant three before we move on to our final quadrant four, which is all about leadership mindset um and a growth um growth mindset, I should say. Thanks so much, everyone. Bye for now. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

You've got the strategies. Now let's build the systems. Whether you're joining our workshops or transforming at our barley business retreat. We're here to help you scale without the burnout. Visit Thriving Business Podcast.com to join our community. Until next time, keep building a business that thrives.