Ep #17 | How Your Values Show Up Whether You Name Them or Not

This is the final episode in our Leadership quadrant, and the last stop on the 16-episode Road Map to Business Success. Sam and Kate unpack why most values statements fail: they're written as nouns, printed on a wall, and disconnected from how the business actually runs day to day.

They break down organisational health expert Patrick Lencioni's four types of values, core, aspirational, permission-to-play, and accidental, and why only one of these should actually be driving your business. You'll hear how a real value statement works as a decision filter: what the value is, what it looks like in practice, and what you'd walk away from because of it.

Sam and Kate also get honest about the tension between values-led leadership and commercial pressure — what happens when your marketing drifts out of step with your own voice, and why alignment shows up in every decision whether you name it or not.

Mentioned in this episode: the free AI Employee Setup Workbook, and the upcoming Bali Business Retreat — four days of hands-on implementation with Sam and Kate. Early bird pricing ends July 15, limited spots.

Have you got your copy of the AI Employee Setup Workbook yet? It's been getting rave reviews! Go here to get it now: https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ai-setup-workbook

Connect with Your Hosts:

Kate De Jong, PhD | Inspired Business 🌐 Website: https://katedejong.com/ 📱 Instagram: @katedejong.inspiredbusiness ✉️ Email: kate@katedejong.com

Sam Morris | The O8 🌐 Website: https://www.theo8.com/ 📱 Instagram: @the_o8crew ✉️ Email: sam@theo8.com

Thriving Business Podcast 🌐Website:   https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ 

JOIN OUR WORKSHOPS

🌐 https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/workshops

COME ON THE 2026 BALI RETREAT

🌐 https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/baliretreat2026

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Thriving Business, the podcast for ambitious business owners who want systematic growth without the burnout. Hosted by Kate De Yong and Sam Morris, these business powerhouses bring you proven frameworks and real strategies to help you build a business that actually thrives.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Welcome back, everyone, to the Thriving Business Podcast. It's been a couple of weeks, but we are back in the chair. Hello, Sam. Hi, Kate. So this is very exciting and also a little bit sad because this is our very last episode of the roadmap to business success that we've been doing over the last three or four months. So we have worked our way through the entire Thriving Business Wheel Quadrant One, Quadrant Two, Quadrant Three, Quadrant Four. And this is the last episode of Quadrant Four, which has all been about leadership. So if you're just tuning in, Sam and I initiated this because we wanted to put something out there that captures everything we've learned about business. For Sam, it's been over 20 years. For me, it's been around 10 years. And we wanted to just package that all into a roadmap that people could listen to. And so, yeah, we've got the four quadrants of the wheel. We've got revenue generation, then we've got profitability, then capacity and business model, and then finally leadership. So we've worked our way through and literally tried to download everything that we've learned on all of those topics.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

So and I'm hoping, Kate, I'm hoping that we actually do a season three and do another lap of the wheel because in our conversations, there have been so many amazing little pieces of information or you know, knowledge or nuggets about the way we do things. And I'd like to pick some of those up and do deep dive sessions into specifics on a round two of the wheel.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Yeah, we've talked about getting guests in as well, uh, who um could who specialise in different segments of the wheel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Yeah, so um still lots more to come. And as we all know, it's an ever-evolving journey. And you know, especially the way things are moving at the moment with AI and all of that, the lap around the wheel will be different next time around.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that look, the the foundations stay the same. It's the approach to how we build foundations that is the thing that changes constantly.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Yes, and on that front, I would like to congratulate you on the building of our AI employee setup workbook, which has been getting rave reviews. Um, and we'll put the link in the show notes to those of you. You can still get it um for free, but we are going to monetize it because Sam has put a lot of thought and effort into engineering these prompts that have just been an absolute game changer. So um they help you under so basically Sam's trained. Well, I'll let you tell what you've done, Sam, and um how it helps people develop those foundational documents that are so necessary.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Well, I think I I don't know, I think people struggle a lot with prompts, and there is so much focus on prompts. And I I always take everything I do in AI beyond just the prompt. It has to be an engagement and a conversation to get to the truth. And too many people that we speak to, Kate, are just skating along the surface. Yes. And when it comes to your business, you know, they're getting generic output and it's really terrible. So what I did was pull together everything um that I do with AI, the prompts that I use and how I get it to push me to achieve better answers and output from me, and therefore the AI is able to produce much better output for business. So it's all in this workbook, and yeah, I'm just thrilled that people are getting such great results from it.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Oh, and it's transformed the way I can work with clients because I think I've said to you in the last week, I've had at least five clients that I'm working with that getting these foundational documents knowledge um solidified is so critical. So, just for those that aren't familiar, it's um Sam has engineered the prompt so that it interviews you about your why and it interviews you in a way that is trained in the Simon Sinek methodology, and it won't accept surface-level answers. So it's um the prompt um challenges you anytime it feels like you're giving it generic fluff, it will push deeper and deeper until it can get to the very specific core of why you do what you do. And the second prompt that you've engineered is the brand, or is the business context, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Um uh you've got four yeah, there's three stages to go through in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Yeah. So the why, then the brand voice, um, the business context and the ideal customer profile, they're the four that I've been getting people to do if they're not 100% clear and their marketing's not getting traction. Um, and it's really everyone that's done it has said, wow, this is mind-blowing. Um, because it's given them, I I liken it to sharpening the sword. It's like you're out there in the market and yeah, you've got a good tool, but this just sharpens everything and makes it so much more specific and more authentic. And I even had a um this week a man launching his own cleaning business in Melbourne, and he's highly educated, works in public policy, PhD, and but he's really passionate about running this family business. Um, and he's got a whole story which he had not realized was driving his desire to start up this business. So when he went through the why process, he said he was almost in tears at some points because it was solidifying his whole background. And he realized it's been 15 years he's been on this journey, and this business is sort of the culmination of that. So it's helped him pull together a really powerful story that then translates into his messaging about how they're not just your regular cleaners, you know. And um, and at first I was thinking, oh, do I actually get a cleaning business to do such a deep dive, you know, into the foundations? But he was open to it and I was curious. Um, and he just loved it and said thank you so much, you know, for um I love hearing these stories. Yeah. And so I guess what back to the point we were saying is the foundations don't change, but how we approach them is changing. And I went through a process, you know, a couple of months back where I was thinking, oh, you know, a couple of clients dropped off because they're getting AI just to help them with their business strategy. And I thought, oh gosh, you know, is this the beginning of us being replaced by AI? Um, but they're all slowly coming back because I think they are realizing that they get overwhelmed by decision fatigue, like Claude or GPT or anything might suggest a strategy, but is it the right strategy for this for your market? And how do you know whether to go all in on that? And you know, you I think still like anything, even people say lawyers are going to be replaced and so on. But I think any highly trained professional is the role is becoming more and more about discernment and um critiquing what AI comes back with and using their breadth of knowledge and experience to um you know to figure out whether something's sound advice or not. And AI is simply making what we do much more efficient.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

And so these this process that you've set up, Sam, has meant that I can get clients to go off and do the prompts in their own time, and it takes them a good couple of hours to work through them properly. And one guy said, Um, oh, I tried to do it quickly, but it wouldn't let me, it kept pushing me.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

No, no, and that is that is the beauty of design, is that it it is not going to let you off the hook. Yeah because letting people let themselves off the hook really easily when they're trying to work through all of this stuff for their business, and that's why they end up with the lack of differentiation and not fully understanding the relevance of their story behind the business and how that can play into marketing because because we know marketing is about communication and connection.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Without those foundations, the the real ones, not the ones you think and just say off the top of your head. But when you do that deep dive and you reach that point of true connection to yourself and your business, then that's the game changer.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it does link to what we're talking about today, which is leading from your values, which is the final topic in the quad in the wheel. But um, yeah, so we are not going to be replaced because we're always going to need the knowledge and wisdom of people, you know, and um that have and I'm finding in the last month I'm getting a lot of inquiries because people are AI fatigued. They just want someone to tell them, you know, give me your experience. Is this the right way to go forward? You know, because AI is saying I should do this, this, and this, and you know, and and I'm realizing more and more, yeah, I can tell that some people are getting really bad advice from AI, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

And yes, yes, that's right. And and and I'll and I'll be shameless right now, Kate, and say that this is the part of our retreat that I'm so excited about coming up because the AI that's a that workbook that's available currently for free to anybody who's interested, we're going to build on that with the retreat and marry the AI output with our experience and you know interpretation and guidance to really help people move the needle in their business.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Yes. And I've had a lot of clients say, Oh, I just I want to get onto the, you know, they've done the foundation docs and they can see in the workbook that we help them set up for skills and projects and and um, you know, getting the automation set up. Oh, but I just never get around to it. So I'm saying come to the retreat and then you can actually sit with us and we'll help you figure out how to implement it.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

And I've I've got some really cool stuff to do with everyone at the retreat. Oh, can't wait. I've been I've been brewing things, Kate. No, I can't wait.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Oh gosh, oh, that's so exciting. Um yeah, so if you are able to join us on the 27th of August to 31st of August, it's going to be four days of focusing just on your business. Um, and yeah, you'll walk away with having a lot of these tools implemented to work more efficiently and lead from your values. So you and I were talking before about firstly how important it is to lead from your values. Um and I know it sounds cliche and it sounds, oh yeah, like another leadership spiel, but yeah, um, I think you and I have both experienced what it's like to lead when you're not aligned with your values. And it's um it's very um, let's just say um impossible, it's soul destroying and um and not and it doesn't uh people pick up on a misalignment, you know, they can sense where there's a misalignment, and it's it doesn't it's not good for your reputation when you're out of alignment because it's it's clear to everyone else. So um you mentioned a technique that we used to do back in the day, um, which was the process of the company we were working for, which was to give people a big list of values, and then to say, right, choose your top three to five values out of this list. And you were saying, Sam, you really think that's the wrong way to go about it.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

I do. And the problem number one I I see with that kind of process is that I I can't remember who it was that I heard this from. So it's not something I made up. I did learn this from somebody else. Sorry to whoever it was that taught me that I can't remember. But what I learned that I really felt was true was that the way we were doing values was we were treating values as a noun rather than a verb. Yes. And the true value of values in your business is that they become how you operate, which is how you do things. So that's why you you don't just plaster four words on the wall and say these are our company values. Uh you need to develop statements around how you operate. And those statements represent the values that you hold.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

And if you just as a side note, have trouble figuring those out, highly recommend you do Sam's prompt. Yes. Um it will help you distill that out. Um, and I love that it's um, yeah, values are intended to drive behaviors, right? So yes, as you say, it's the way you operate, it's the compass and and it's what we we will and will not allow in in terms of behaviors in the business. Yes. So um give us an example, Sam, of one of your values as a verb.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

How long is uh so if you're if you think to yourself, oh, one of my values is trust, that that doesn't mean much in the context of your business. So your value statement, this is this is what I think, your value statement should be demonstrating how you deliver and show trust in the relationship between your business and your customers, your business and and your suppliers, between your business and any one anybody else in the world. So for example, just saying that all of the products in your or all of the ingredients in in this product that you produced are Australian made, the level of trust that comes with that is that it's legitimately Australian-made and not imported and then mixed together in Australia and calling that Australian-made, which I know has been a really hot topic uh in the product side of the world. Um services, it would be about the promise you make to people about how you deliver and how you show up. Um for example, coaches, you know, like you always show up on time ready for the session. Um, if that's a value statement of your business, then people will say, Well, this is what I expect from this coach, for example. Yes. Yeah. So the statement would be, yeah, my clients trust me, our clients trust us to always be on time and prepared for every session. Great value statement. And that says a lot to people.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Yeah. Okay. So um, you know, and and integrity is another one I'm thinking, which is a very high value, um, and and value for money, um, you know, which is so important for people in the startup space.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Um, so yeah, that would be something like we search for the um lowest cost, highest value option to get you to profit as as quickly and efficiently as possible. So yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yes, yeah. And I think also that the values need to hold up, not just in in an aspirational sense. So it's not something you aspire to be, because values should be how you are, not how you want to be, not how you were. This is how we are, this is how we operate from day one. This is not a statement about how we hope to be able to operate one day. Uh yeah, they they need to stand the test of time.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Yeah, that's right. And I think that's where we got tripped up in a in a previous company where um we were saying a lot of things to get the sale, but the delivery and the follow-up was not there that matched what was you know being promised, um, just through company processes and so on. And that felt out of alignment for us because um, you know, obviously our values are to do what we say we're going to do. That's right. Yeah. And when when that wasn't happening in the way that, you know, a lot of it was out of our control, then that feels really bad for us, but not, but it it's also incredibly damaging to the brand reputation because word travels fast, and as soon as that um trust is broken, um, yeah, it's uh a brand's reputation can go downhill very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Yeah, and it's interesting. So the prompts, one of the prompts that you do is the brand voice, um, one of those clawed prompts that you generated. And I found that that's been really, really helpful. For me, it got really clear about um, and it's very aligned with values, I think, because your voice is just how you speak about what you do, right? Which is all driven by your values. Um, and so for me, it was big very clear that I don't do any gimmicky um talk around it, whatever I say has to be authentic. So it even picked me up. I asked it to review our barley sales page, for example, and it said, well, is it true that there are only two spots left? And I said, Well, yes, it is actually true. So, okay, well, that's good. Otherwise, you're not being authentic. And it did pick up a few things on my website where it was like, you're doing the um you're using the marketing um over-enthusiastic, you know, selling, it's not in alignment with your voice, which is it takes time to build a sustainable business. I'm not going to give you the easy answers, but I'll give I'll give you the true answers, you know. And anyway, it's just been really useful in helping me figure out the language I will and won't use. And I can see now when I look back at stuff how I've fallen into the trap of being markety, you know, or sales-y, unknowingly, even though it's not in my nature to do that. We kind of have been taught over the years that you've got to use all the tactics, scarcity, urgency, all those things. Um, and they do work from a psychology perspective when you're trying to sell. There are certain psychological triggers that are important. However, if it's not authentic, then you're out of alignment with your values. So that's yeah, for me, it's like you can use the urgency and the scarcity if it's a true thing. But you know, we all see the three days left to get your spot, last two, you know, available. Um, yeah, and a lot of the time we know that's just not true. They're just trying to sell some authors before the the sales close.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

So yeah, I I love that Claude's picked that up for you because yes, I I get Claude to review pages as well, and it does the same for me. It's like, well, you said this, is this actually true or is this marketing? And I'm like, no, that's legitimate. Like the closing dates, the closing date. That's yes, it's not it's not the ticking the marketing boxes to push sales. This is legitimate. This is what Kate and I have decided on this, and this is this amount of places we have, this is genuinely the cutoff date. So yes, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

We see a lot of evergreen, like for just example, an ebook that I came across, which was an AI something. I was just doing some research to see what else is happening, and it's evergreen, obviously, it's a product they have, but they put a you know, a counter on the on the checkout and all these things to sort of pressure you to make a decision now. And um, yeah, and I I know that they they work because people do fall for those. But I think that um, you know, the point is uh getting really clear on what your values are. Um some people um authenticity is not a huge driver for them, for example, you know, and and you know, there are you know, when we go back to the personality coding, you've got the action types where they're all about the rah-rah and the you know the the winning and the stimulation, the competition, and they're usually the influencers and they're platforms. Um I shouldn't, you know, I shouldn't say that they're um they don't value authenticity, but um, a lot of them obviously do, but it's lower down than say someone who's high on nurture or um and and so it I think it's about whatever your values are, they're perfectly good and true for you. You've just got to figure out what they are, right? And then your brand voice aligns around that, and then how you walk and talk and how people perceive you um is where the integrity comes in, because if they're seeing complete alignment, then um yeah, then they resonate it'll resonate if as Simon Sinek says, if they believe what you believe, then there'll be resonance there and they'll want to, they'll be magnetized to your brand.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah, and I I think that there I remember, you know, for years now there's been so much talk about authenticity in marketing, you know, like when you show Up on social media, just be yourself and all that. And then people argue that they are like, well, it's me. I'm making the videos and I'm doing this. But there's a disconnect for the audience because the authenticity comes not just from what you're saying, but there are so many, you know, nonverbal cues to the way that you're communicating. And if what you're saying isn't truly aligned with your values, and and this happens on such a subconscious level, when there's that disconnect between the conscious and the and the subconscious communication, that's when the marketing appears to not be authentic.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

People struggle to figure out the disconnect. They're like, Yeah, but it's me and I'm showing up every day. It's like, hmm. So yes, they they need to really figure out what all this means and how it all fits together because sometimes it's the tiny little tweaks in what you do can make all the difference.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Um, yeah, I know personally um it's been quite a journey. Like and I my values are not necessarily commercially profitable. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 23:14

No, and I honestly, Kate, I do believe, um, you know, like I have this collaboration with you, and I have my collaboration with Steph for the 08 as well. And I believe that like I work with you so well because our values are pretty similar. Yes. You know, the the things that are very high on the list are things like integrity and trust and those sorts of things. That's why it's like everything works for us.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And where I struggle, and I know a lot of, you know, we've in the previous episodes we've talked about personality profiling and and the you know, you and I lead with nurture and knowledge. So for us, the most important thing is understanding something intimately, you know, seeking intellectual substance and depth and really understanding things, and then have and then the relationships and authenticity and community. That's and um it's quite a challenge for me personally when you when you have when you lead with those values to run a business model that's highly um commercially oriented, if you know what I mean, which I absolutely do, yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

That you the sales processes that make you cringe and and the the levels of acceptable outcome that sit so far below what you would consider value for money.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Yeah. And also the way you would set up the terms and conditions of your coaching contract, for example. So I know that I overgive and I over-deliver. And over the years, I've tried really hard to tame that with good strong boundaries and terms and conditions and so on, but I still find that a challenge because my ultimate, my highest value is that a client gets the result that they've signed up for. And um yeah. And I'm the same. And so just to all of you out there who struggle with a similar thing, it's real, and yeah, um, it doesn't mean you're a bad business person, which is the impression I got in um in the previous setup that you and I used to work for was that I was just not commercially minded. And it's true, I'm not I am because I have to be. I run a business, and so therefore, I must be. I wouldn't still be in business if I wasn't, you know, slightly commercially oriented. But yeah, um it's not yeah, and I notice myself doing it often and continuously. Just I guess I'm just saying to those of you out there that struggle with this, you can run a sustainable business. Your own personal energy is always going to be the thing that's vulnerable and managing your time and energy. But I've sort of got to the point where I think, okay, I've um, to me, the measure of success is how many of your clients are happy and would refer you on to other clients, and that's still what drives me the most. So that's being in complete alignment with my values. Um, does it mean that I overgive and over-deliver at times? Yes, but I and despite my best efforts, I don't seem to be able to change that. So now I'm in a place where that's just how I operate, and so it's a matter, it's more important to me to feel good about what I do than uh and to suffer a little bit of um the consequences of that than to operate differently and be out of alignment of my values. Just do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah, yeah, because when you're when you're out of alignment, Kate, that's when you're gonna lose the very people that you want to help. Yeah, that's right. Because people know you can you can talk the talk, but you've got to walk the walk as well.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

Yeah, so yes, um commercial um driving factors are you know, they can be they can be challenging in business.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

I love that you recognize this in yourself though, Kate, because then it's more a matter of of working on how you manage it rather than try and cut that part of yourself off because that will not work.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

Which I did do for years. Yeah, so no, you're right. Now it's about managing it and what can I put in place to make sure I minimize it.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Um and make sure that you're sustainable.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Yeah. So what else did you have? Because I know you did some research before this.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

I do do some research. And true to form, the person who I've researched, I don't know how to pronounce their name. I feel like this is a recurring theme for me. I'm terrible with names. So let's just butcher this poor person's name right from the start. And maybe you maybe you know uh his name is Patrick Lencioni. Okay. We'll just run with that and apologies if it's wrong. So he wrote an article about the four different types of values. He's declared there are four different types. So there are your core values, which is they're non-negotiables. That's just who you are. There are aspirational values, and they're the ones you're like, you you wish you were like that, but you're not. There are permission to play values, so he describes these as baseline stakes like honesty and respect and things like that. And most people have those values, they're pretty common, yeah, and they don't differentiate you from anybody else, those ones. And then you have accidental values, and these are traits that emerge organically from founders, so um they're not chosen deliberately, that's it's just what shows up, and what he's written about is the fact that most businesses who develop values and value statements do a mix of the four different types, but only one type is actually a driver for business. So at the get-go, we've got values that aren't really supporting business because they're coming from the wrong place. Uh, so what he says is that your business values should be what actually drives the behavior in your business. And where he says this becomes great business value and not just a copy that you've written to make, you know, to fill a page on your website is that your values should support the speed in which you make decisions, they give you clarity around how you hire and fire people, they should differentiate you in the market and they should empower your pricing. Right. Now that's all that's all new to me today in my research. And I actually think that's that's very powerful. Can you imagine? I I think I'm going to build something out to include this now because he's absolutely right. When I think about values, I haven't addressed those four areas before in in any value statements.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

So um can you re repeat them?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

The first one was how you the first one is a value that determines the dis the speed in which you make decisions, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Yeah, and the second one was um how how you hire and fire. Hiring and firing clarity.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah. The third one is how you differentiate yourself in the market. And the fourth one is pricing power. Right. And this is an interesting one because sitting behind pricing power, he says that values-aligned clients are less price sensitive because they're not just buying the deliverable, they're buying the way you operate. I think that's a very powerful place to come from. Yeah. And I think that's gonna be a great one for you to write, given what we just spoke about.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

I like that. I do too. I I wish I'd known about Mr. Patrick before now.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

And um what's the surname again? Patrick? Lincioni. Lindcy with a Z?

SPEAKER_01 31:57

No, it's L-E-N-C-I-O-N-I.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

The founder of the Table Group, the pioneer of the organizational health movement. He wrote the five dysfunctions of a team. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

I think I'm gonna do some already. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Yeah, okay. The six types of working genius. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Oh I wonder if we fit into any of those.

SPEAKER_03 32:25

Yeah. Yeah. So, and that I suppose that is that's a good way of um considering how your values apply in your business. Um because that's what it comes down to. How do you make decisions? How do you, yeah, because we have to make decisions quickly and on the fly. So I guess being very clear about what are the yes and no, you know, decision factors. Um, yeah, this there's you know, people always think, oh, values, yeah, lead from your values. It's but this, so there's quite a lot of depth to to doing to going into that and understanding it properly and and letting it drive your business.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

There is, yeah. And I think because it has been generic for so many people, that's where the connection to how it does drive business has been totally lost, which is really sad.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

Yeah, because we've all been in those companies where they've got their company values on the wall, but it just it's not reflected in the culture or how people lead or how people interact. And yeah, it gets you can get cynical pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. How sad that they spend all of that. And I mean, some of these companies spend a lot of money to develop these value statements so that they can do them in gold embossed lettering in their reception. Uh, and then the fact that they don't take that one step further and make sure that these are embedded in how they operate, what a huge mistake.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, so um what else did you um yeah? I mean, just looking at some of the quotes of Lanciene says, if you get all the people in your business rowing in the same direction, you could dominate any industry in any market against any competition at any time. So, yeah, that's um and and his five layers of dysfunction, um, or or the five levels where dysfunction can occur are at the trust level, the conflict level, the commitment level, accountability level, and results level. Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah. So I like this too. And I I really think I'm gonna develop something, Kate. I'm excited about this. For value statements to function as a decision filter rather than wall art, it needs three parts. The first part is the value. What is the value? And it even says not a noun. Thank you very much for backing me up there. Yes. Uh, the second part is what it means in practice. So, what is the behavior? Not the feeling you want people to have, but what is the behavior that we use every single day that reflects this value? And the third one is what would we walk away from because of it? And that that is like the bottom line test for your value.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

Yeah, learning to say no is just as important as learning to say yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Yeah. Are you are you going to hold to your own values?

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

Yeah, well, I definitely think there's a Claude prompt coming there. There's going to be, yes, bonus, we'll we'll um we'll put out edition two of the AI employees setup workbook, which includes values and how they will apply to your how you operate your business. Because so far the prompts are external facing around um, you know, how are you going to show up in the world to be um authentic and as a brand. But then this is the internal facing component, which is how are you going to make decisions in your business? Um, that mean you're in alignment with your values. So there's definitely a prompt coming there. I can feel it, Sam.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

There is. There is going to be more work for people to do. No, I I don't want people to not do this.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

Yeah, and I'm excited, I'm excited to do this because it means um uh yeah, as in I would love to see what you come up with because it would help me figure out how I'm going to operate across those four different areas. What are my yes and no points? Because occasionally I do say yes and and then I'm out of alignment slightly and it doesn't flow, you know. Um at what points do I say no?

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Yes. And that that may be hmm, that's that's gonna be fun to figure that out because I need I need to have a mechanism in there that's gonna hold you accountable to going against your own values. So that that there'll be a little slap on the wrist in there of like if you do it, you're gonna be out of alignment, and then this is this is what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

Yeah. Cool. Well, um, did you have any other points you wanted to cover off today? Because we're coming towards the end of our time.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Uh no, no. I just think oh the the I think this is one of the the things that we're gonna have an exciting round two on. Yeah. Because this is much bigger than even I realized before today.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Yeah, we just sort of you you we you you bull pulled these prompts together and we put them in a workbook, and it was all about getting AI employees set up within your business to help you be more efficient. Yeah. And now, yeah, there's another layer to it, which is yeah, how how are you going to operate within, you know, yeah, on a values aligned basis. Yeah. Um, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Me too. Yes. I've written a note down here. I like that you call it uh the the internal facing. So I've written down internal operations. That's going to be workbook number two.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

Beautiful. Space, everyone. But this is the key to getting AI set up in a way that works for you in a values-aligned way, um, rather than just getting it to do tasks. Like there, I feel there could be a decision matrix where anytime there's a, you know, you get an email inquiry, feed it through Claude, what do you think? Well, you know, and it challenges you on different things. So yeah, this this new phase of so I was telling you about a situation where um a client had um done the prompts that you suggested, loved them, finally felt like they were clear on their brand voice and why their social media marketing had been feeling out of alignment, and um went to their social media marketer and said, Um, we've done some work and we've refined our brand voice, and we'd love to implement it in this in the social media captions and everything that we do. And the social media marketer got offended and upset because I think felt criticized, even though that's not the way the message was put to her, apparently. Um and yeah, there's there's those out there, and and in the and and sorry, the end of that story is that the social media marketer resigned because she felt challenged or um possibly you know questioned her credit her her credibility questioned or something. And rather, and I and I thought, wow, what a lost opportunity. Because if that girl, going back to all the emotional intelligence stuff we did, you know, in in the previous episodes, and we talked about the qualities of EQ, um, which are curiosity, vulnerability, and comfort with uncertainty, if she had had the courage to get curious and say, Oh, where exactly is that's interesting, let me read through it and yeah, I'll see where it's different to how I've been talking. Like if she'd been curious, she could have learned where it was out of alignment for them and and and and said, Yeah, let's tweak it, let's make it much more on brand to be like you, and missed an opportunity there to work with them to put something better out there, um, and resigned as a result. So it wasn't a good outcome for anyone.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

No, and I'm just I we without, you know, like we don't know who this person was at all. So we can only guess as to the reasoning behind that. But yeah, I agree, Kate. Missed opportunity to have a really successful client in your portfolio who is totally aligned. And I I see different strokes of different folks. If that was me, I would have asked, how did you pull this together? Because I did this with my other clients.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Exactly. And that's what I said to her. Because apparently, you know, the way they extract that information is through a questionnaire, you know, the typical old survey that you used to do where you fill in your answers. But that um this client was saying she didn't know how to answer those questions, and so she just sort of put something down. Whereas Claude guides you through how to answer the questions based on the prompts that you've given it, and so that's why she felt so much more confident in her answers because it helped her answer the questions that were required. And I exactly that's exactly what I said. What a missed opportunity for her to say, wow, how did you do that? And how can I do that? And how can I make that process better for my clients so that I can um better extract their brand voice and do a better job? Like, yeah, it's it's I believe there's two types of people, they're gonna embrace AI and harness it for all the value and power that it has to do things better and more efficiently. That's obviously the camp that you and I sit in, or there's those who are going to resist it and and push back and be sticks in the mud. And I don't think it's gonna work out well if you choose that path. And this person's response to my client was oh, you're using AI way too much, you should trust my my um experience.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

And yeah, um but it was their brand, yeah. Yeah, look, okay, I I think, and I can go, you know, going back over the years of when I've engaged people to build websites and things like that, and being given that questionnaire, and having no idea truly how to answer a lot of the questions.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Yeah, if your brand was a um was a drink, which drink would it be? And like, well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, and who who is your idle audience? Like that was always guesswork. It was so hard to feel, you know, what what what's the message? All of these questions as a business owner, way, you know, going back 15, 20 years, as a business owner who needed a website. And I'm sitting there thinking, can't you figure that out and tell me? Because I don't know the answers to these questions. I know it's my business, but I don't know. We'd never done any of that deep work. We'd just started a business. We had no idea about any of that foundational stuff, and certainly not how to develop it the way that we know how to now.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

But yeah, I mean, engaging in professionals and them handing you a sheet to fill in about your business, that that that can lose your clients right there if they don't know the answers, then the setting your own business up to fail because you're going to deliver a product that isn't right because a business owner didn't even know the right answers to give you in the first place.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Yeah. The quality of those answers is not going to be where it should be for you to um you know appropriately take on their brand voice. Yeah.

unknown 43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

So yes, sad situation where, you know, and that's just, you know, we've talked a lot about um the leadership is about um having the courage to be vulnerable and curious and admit where you don't know something or where you could learn something or be better at something. Um and the and unfortunately, you know, growth growth requires us to receive feedback and to constantly learn and grow. And if you're not willing to do that because you believe you've had all the answers, and that was sort of the response was from this um social media marketer was uh well, I have a marketing degree, you know, and um and yeah, congratulations. Yeah, you can sit in that all knowing I have all the answers, or you can have the courage to say, Hey, that's really cool. I didn't, you know, I'd love to learn what is actually your brand voice, how is it different to how I've been speaking, you know, and that's that's that's courageous. Um, and that's where you're gonna grow and and learn and be a better, be better at what you do.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Yes. Hey, as women who are higher educated, tertiary educated women, we both know that way back in the year that we got our degree and you got your PhD, it doesn't stop there. You can't just sit there and rest on that. The learning has to continue. Yeah, it's an education. You can't just sit there and go, Well, I've got a degree, so obviously. I know everything. Nobody can say that. Nobody.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

That's right. Yeah, so wrapping up this leadership quadrant, we we, you know, we've touched on self-awareness and how that's so important and how the majority of people actually are not self-aware, even though they think they are. So um, that was a fascinating episode. And then we talked about emotional intelligence and how important that is to be a good leader. Um, and yeah, leading from values today. And watch this space, I would say. If you want to learn what your values are, I'm pretty sure Sam's gonna have a Claude prompt worked up very soon.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Yes. Um, but yeah, yeah, because that's where the the magic works. I I've got some really cool AI stuff to set up in everybody.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Oh my gosh. Okay. That's exciting. Yeah, I can't wait to see that. And so four days to focus on your business, not you know, take a step out, step away from the daily grind, you know, get the inspiration from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. every day. We're going to be hands-on implementing stuff, and then you've got free time to walk on the beach, drink cocktails by the pool, do whatever your little heart desires in Bali. Um, but yeah, we intend that it will be a highly um uh trans what's the word? Um transformational. Yeah, it sounds sounds. It's very yeah, it's a cliche. But I do think it's gonna be a game changer for people. That's another cliche, but it will shift the direction of your business into to more efficient and effective and clear.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

It's going to, I the part of this I'm excited about, Kate, is yes, yes, absolutely, you know, like the business development. But what I love watching is the change in how people think about their business, their own perception of their business and what they're capable of, and the direction they can take things and and how far they could potentially go. Because people have they limit themselves in all of those areas. Yeah, that's right. We we you know, open them up.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

We are, and what I love about your work, Sam, is you actually open them up but then get down to business and help them implement.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

I was talking to Naz the other day because she's launching, relaunching a program, and she said, Oh, I need someone like Sam who can just help me set up calendarly. You remember on the last episode you helped her set up calendar? People just need the hands-on help sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

They do, absolutely, yeah. That's what I said to you. The amount of times I've been in a session with someone, and it's literally just they just need that support of someone while they sit there and do something because they don't have the confidence to press the buttons and know that this is the right information to put here and there, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:35

Beautiful. All right, everyone. Well, um, hopefully that's been enough of a plug for the retreat. But we would love to see that we have two spots. A month away, and we have two spots left. So if one of them is yours, please reach out and we would love to have you join us.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

And the deadline on the on the page is real, people.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

It is real, yeah. We are in alignment with our values around that. So thank you so much, everyone. It has been such a pleasure being on this 16-episode journey with you all. Um, and we will be back for more very soon. Watch this space, and until then, bye for now.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

You've got the strategies. Now let's build the systems. Whether you're joining our workshops or transforming at our Bali Business Retreat, we're here to help you scale without the burnout. Visit Thriving Business Podcast.com to join our community. Until next time, keep building a business that thrives.